The Fixed Podcast

Transforming Challenges into Success with Dr. Justin Moody: Part 1

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Dr. Justin Moody, a leading figure in implant dentistry, joins us to share his journey and the impact of his visionary educational platform, Pathway. From my own beginnings with an Implant Pathway scholarship in 2018 to the vibrant evolution of dental training, we explore the myriad opportunities Pathway presents. Dr. Moody's passion for inspiring new dentists and his personal pursuits, such as acquiring a Napa property, highlight the importance of passion projects beyond a professional career.

The triangular challenges of dentistry—art, business, and patient relationships—are central to our discussion, as we explore how dentists can transform their roles from problem-solvers to healers. Specialization in areas like full arch dentistry allows practitioners to focus on solutions, creating a more rewarding practice for both dentists and their patients. By honing listening skills and understanding patient needs, we emphasize building stronger, more fulfilling patient relationships, turning them into enthusiastic advocates.

Through personal stories of overcoming limitations and seizing bold career moves, we delve into the essence of persistence and innovation in the dental field. My journey from a Nebraska farm to implant dentistry illustrates the power of passion and growth when pursuing one's true calling. Additionally, we recount the expansion of a surgical practice amid the COVID-19 pandemic, showcasing the resilience and dedication of our Pathway community. Join us for an inspiring conversation that promises to leave you feeling motivated and ready to embrace new possibilities in your professional journey.
Speaker 1:

My name is Dr Tyler Tolbert and I'm Dr Soren Poppy, and you're listening to the Fix Podcast, your source for all things implant dentistry.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome back to the Fix Podcast. We have a celebrity on with us today, dr Justin Moody. I wanted to welcome him to the show. Justin, thank you so much for coming on today. This is a huge full circle moment for me. You actually kind of started off my whole implant journey. You maybe probably don't even remember, of course, but this was back in, must have been. I think this was probably the summer of 2018. I got a scholarship of sorts to go through Implant Pathway, so I was a D2 and did the online part and part one that came out for parts two and three in Seattle. I'm now in the PNW again which is an amazing thing and now you're on my implant podcast and it's just been really incredible to see all that come full circle. You really, you know, gave me the implant bug and I was never able to look past it. So, you know, here we are and I can't thank you enough for coming on.

Speaker 3:

Oh, of course, I've always enjoyed everybody that comes through the, you know, through the place and uh, there's, you know to be, to be honest, you know, there's uh not that many that take that journey. You know, like starting in uh, uh dental school and yeah, you know, we don't know what, we don't know right, and I mean I just remember dental school is a little different today than it was. Well, hell, it was different in 18 than it is today. You know, in the 90s, when I was in dental school, like God, I don't know if there was enough pizza and beer to get me to attend some kind of function that had to do with learning outside of dental school. So, you know, hats off to you and anyone that does that.

Speaker 1:

Sure, sure, no, I appreciate it. So, for anyone who doesn't know, I guess you've been living under a rock if you don't. So Dr Justin Moody, among his many accomplishments, is infamous for starting the Implant Pathway, which is now known as pathway. Is it, is it? Just everyone knows what it is. So this is really the premier implant education continuum that has sprawled out. It started off with just, you know, getting doctors into placing implants, I guess just with your simple, abundant bone. You know, single implant. And now, you know, dr Moody just sat down with us and was like, yeah, we had all kinds of stuff going on. We got remote Anchorage with Dr Dan Holtzclaw he's been on the show before. Um, we had, uh, you guys got a CEREC course going on. You've got a fast track going on all at the same time. And just, I can't wait to kind of get into the full story of it. And you know where it's been, where it's come, where it's going, things like that Cool.

Speaker 2:

I want to thank you too. I just got back from Napa about a month ago and I don't remember if I reached out for some recommendations. So I got to. I hit Brasswood, I had the pulled mozzarella did ghost block I did. I did all the wrecks and man it was, it was delicious.

Speaker 3:

you nailed all of them and we had a great time there well, I didn't know and I, I guess I didn't realize you uh, uh, I'd already been there before this. So, uh, yeah, like, um, you know, like I think everybody should have like this passion project right Like I, there's there's no doubt. You know that I am uh continue to be passionate about, uh, you know, implant dentistry and uh, I think my niche, you know kind of, is settled out into. You know, my job is to excite people in the implant industry.

Speaker 3:

You know, when Bethway first started, you know I taught I mean literally, I mean I taught all the courses. You know I taught fast track. You know I taught the full arch course that we did and the scientist course and the complications course. And you know, as we've grown, you know so as our, you know, as we've grown, you know so has our, you know, faculty and mentor base has grown, uh, with us. And uh, you know I've settled into, I just need to excite doctors into getting into implant dentistry. And you know, get out there and nail some ones and twos and some up under bone and uh, you know, I'll ruin a, I'll ruin a good chair of dentists. And to, you know, never wanting, you know, philips krauts and hygiene check yeah don't follow the way you guys.

Speaker 3:

You know I did the full arch and and I couldn't be, you know, more proud of that. But you know I'm also super proud of the. You know the the doctors have gone through and they drop. You know they drop singles that are that are dead center parallel to the contact points, but a screw-retain crowd at the access hole, dead center. Those are all great things.

Speaker 1:

That's harder, by the way. That's harder than anything we do in Full Arch.

Speaker 3:

Listen Monday at a fast track. I start out with telling them I don't want you to start with number eight as a matter of fact, like if I finished my if. I finished my dental career and I didn't do another eight or nine in my career like.

Speaker 1:

I'm good Like.

Speaker 3:

I, that's some hard ass implant dentistry, right? You know, over these years I'm going to circle back. Oh yeah, it is. You know, over these years I'm going to circle back to the Napa thing. You know, sometimes opportunities show up and I had the opportunity to buy a distressed property from a buyer, you know, back in 2020 in Napa. And you know, today we've got a. You know, we got a winery under construction and the goal of that is to create an environment where, you know, obviously we'll probably cater to dentists.

Speaker 3:

You, know, yeah, a thousand people have taken pathway and you know probably more than that. You know that. You know, know where we are and you know dentists we tend to be. You know we didn't. We, you know we tend to like wine and uh, you know many of the uh. You know it is as a dentist. Like, you do have a good wage and you can, we tend to like wine. As a dentist, you do have a good wage and you can afford to scale up on the wine. It's one of my passions as well. I'm super passionate about it. I'm glad you had a great experience because that's what's going, that's what's going out there is supposed to be, and you know those places. You know, like there's this little, this brasswood uh restaurant. They also have a winery there and they have an off the menu thing called the, the pulled mozzarella, and they come and they, they cut it and they pull it, literally pull it, and then they set it on this uh, uh, toasted, almost baguette type thing and like oh, you would have liked it.

Speaker 3:

If I'm out there by myself, like I, I may just have that and a glass of wine for dinner and that's like, yeah, there you go, yeah, no, we had a an excellent time.

Speaker 2:

unfortunately, it did end with a couple cases of wine coming to my house and I had to get a wine fridge. So now i'm'm a, I'm a full on board, I'm like it was. It was so good. You know what they do, is they? They get you to have four or five tastings and then, before you know it, you know you got a case coming to your door. Uh, but we had, man, such a good time. Helena was great, and then we went to I don't know if it's called the Cook too. That was really good.

Speaker 3:

So Cook is the locals' restaurant. So imagine Napa having all these millions of tourists a year. Catering to the tourists. Cook restaurant in downtown St Helena isn't open on friday and saturday night. Yeah, like, imagine, like. Imagine a high-end, like chef inspired restaurant that is not open on friday and saturday night in this environment. And it is because the the restaurant is for the locals.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's what he said. He said that that he doesn't want to serve on weekends, so he just does weekdays. He doesn't care about having a huge crowd in there and he just serves good quality Italian pasta. It was delicious.

Speaker 3:

But think about that as it correlates to the jobs that we do. I don't want to work on weekends either, right, but you know, you think about it Like. You know. What he's done is he's created an environment and a job in which it works for him.

Speaker 1:

It's a lifestyle restaurant.

Speaker 3:

Right right.

Speaker 3:

Like it's true, look like balanced restaurant. You know like I'm not going to blow away Friday and Saturday night every day for the rest of my life. You know, like, like I'm not gonna play you, I'm not gonna blow my friday and saturday night every day for the rest of my life. You know serving other people, so that's my night to have date night. Yeah, you know why can't I have date night on friday night or saturday night or go travel on weekend or whatever? So, uh, I think it's. I think there's always like great correlations between you know, like what we perceive to be what we perceive to be the norm and what is possible for anyone to go create. Yeah, you know, he created a. He went and created a restaurant that he get, that he has his weekend spree.

Speaker 2:

What an amazing job right and you know it's. It's funny because that's kind of what I mean just just saying like a correlation, like the reason that I got into one of the reasons I got into dentistry in the first place was because I was looking for a work life balance. And then I got into dentistry and I was like I don't know if, if the like fillings thing is for me, I really like surgery. So you know it's what's nice about dentistry is you can kind of tailor yourself into whatever avenue you want, like and you can have a really nice work life balance off that. If you love to do root canals, you can start a practice, do an endo every day. You know, maybe you only want to work three days a week. It's an option for you.

Speaker 2:

And that's a really cool thing that I think we're able to do as dentists is you can find your niche. You don't have to work six days a week. You can kind of tailor it based on what kind of income you want and you could still be very successful. I mean, I know dentists that work two days a week and they still do absolutely fine and it's pretty cool that we're able to do that. And very similar to the chef at Cook. He wanted this for his restaurant, made it happen. He figured out how to make it successful by tailoring to the the local crowd instead of instead of the tourist is that like? Could his restaurant be more successful if he wanted to expand a bit? Probably. But he's not interested in that and that's okay too.

Speaker 3:

He's probably much, much happier just doing monday through thursday is it that you know, like you think about, like the correlations to. You know what we do because you know dentistry I don't care if you're doing what we call bread and butter dentistry or if we're doing implant dentistry or whatever it is uh, you know that the job is tough and it gets tough when you, when you cycle the hamster wheel. And you know junior point right, like you know, he could probably make a tremendous amount more money by being open Friday and Saturday and catering to the tourists and then working with the car services and all the other things, but it's not what he, it's not what he chooses to do and to do, and and it keeps him sane. You know because you know I think that, um, I think about this all the time and you know what inspires me to uh. Uh, you know the, the, the tasting room, and you know the, the winery aspect is. You know, when you woke up in Napa, were, you mad?

Speaker 2:

No, I wasn't mad.

Speaker 3:

No, what I'm getting at is like now. Think about your patient that's going to wake up tomorrow morning for a dual arch. Are they happy?

Speaker 2:

Probably anxious but maybe excited to get on the other end, but scared.

Speaker 3:

For sure, right, right, but like, let me ask you this like when they came to your office, like, did they be like, hey, doc, like, uh, like, how are you? Like, like, what makes you tick? Like how'd you, how'd you build this office? Like, how'd you get here, how'd you go to dental school? Like, like all the things? No, but think about you going into a winery in napa, like those are like all the things that you want from them. Right, you just like tell me, you know like what's? You know what's your story? You know, like, like, where the grapes come from, how they get here, who owns it? Like all these, all these things, because the the mindset is I want the story, yeah, and I and I and I want, you know, I want the experience in.

Speaker 3:

I was telling the class on monday that fast track classes. You know john coice, uh, you know, is one of my you know dear friends and mentors and, like he, for 20 years now, you know maybe more, but, like you know, since I took the thing um dating me, uh, you know he's, he talked about dentistry. We're like the hit man. You know, like, we go in there, we tell the doc, you know, we tell the patient, all the things that are wrong, and you know it's going to cost money and it's going to cost time and it's going to cause pain and all these things. So they get this upset in this right, yeah, it's almost like you know. You know.

Speaker 3:

It's like hey, you know, doc, you know no offense, but you know I hate the debts yeah, great right like, like maybe I want to go out as a dentist, be going like, hey, like, the first time someone, next time someone tells me that I'll be like like hey, patient, like I don't like patients, yeah Right, just drop them. You know, drop the drill and walk out. You know, like, but you know there's a, there's a that it, it, it, it, it, it, it, it. Go back to that's.

Speaker 3:

What makes this job tough is that you've got the business side of dentistry right, like you're. You know you got to make payroll and you got to like provide for your family and service, your loans and things like that. You know it's kind of like this triangle right, like you've got the act of being a dentist at the top. You know like having a skillset of doing like the amazing quality dentist and helping patients. But then you've got like the base of the triangle that holds that up and that and the base is business. You know like, like, like which are separate. You know, like you do enough of this up here, like it should see the business business.

Speaker 3:

But you know we're scientists by nature and we, you know we don't, we're not always the best business people. You know. So, like we learn on the fly and got to be conscious of that. And then I think the other piece that holds us up is the being in us, like the ability to communicate with that patient and have a relationship with them that allows them to be served, you know, by you and allows you, you know, do the work that they need to have done and like, if you think about, if you don't have three good corners of that, that triangle, like you're, you're not getting where you want to be, you know you're not, you're not going to like, you're not going to be as successful as you could be, and we're all born with all of those and those are things that we, I know we got on a little bit of a tangent Business and business, but then, at the end of the day, we're still in our customer service business, absolutely, and it's what makes dentistry tough.

Speaker 2:

It is. Yeah, I agree 100%. One thing I've talked about on the podcast before that I enjoy about at least full arch dentistry tough it is. Yeah, I, I agree 100. You know one thing I've talked about on the podcast before that I enjoy about, um, at least full arch dentistry, you know this in this, in this podcast, is full arch dentistry kind of focused and um, and I would say something that I've enjoyed a lot, that kind of transitioned me into full arch dentistry, was I kind of got sick of of whenever I told a patient that something was wrong. They, you know, it's like I'm like, hey, you're doing an oral exam and and they have a tooth that that needs a filling. They're just like, oh, like man, this is. This is why I hate the dentist is because you gave that.

Speaker 1:

you gave them yeah.

Speaker 2:

I gave you, gave them, yeah, I gave them a problem, and there's nothing. Yeah, there's nothing more fulfilling, though, about having an office where the patients seek me out because they want a solution to a problem that they already know of. Um, and I think it probably is the same thing with with like, I don't do cosmetic dentistry, but like cosmetic dentistry where, where there's like, yeah, right, but you're talking about.

Speaker 3:

You're talking about Kois.

Speaker 2:

And if you're able to find a niche that you like, you can service yourself in a way that when patients come to your door, they know their problem already You're the solution. So instead of me telling them all these issues they have, I'm telling them how I can fix all their issues, and for me that's really rewarding and it takes away a little bit of that hitman aspect where and that makes it so much more enjoyable for me and it allows me to see myself in this career for a long period of time, because I enjoy it, instead of going to work every day. The patient's telling me man, I hate you, the dentist sucks and now I have to get four crowns and a filling. I thought I came in here scot-free and you know what the dentist across the street said I was fine. They said I didn't have any and it was totally good.

Speaker 2:

So I do like the aspect of full arch focus dentistry, where they come to me and they're like doc, I need all my teeth out. How, how can you help me? And I'm like perfect. I'll tell you exactly what I would do. You know, these are the, these are the options you have and we can go from there. Um, so that's something that you know, I I really, really enjoy about that.

Speaker 3:

Well, don't stop talking about that. Like, like, uh, uh, you know, don't stop talking about that. Like, you know, don't stop telling other dentists, you know that there's a way to, like, become the healer, because that's what Don Coyce talks about. You know, at the end of the day, we want to try to change the narrative of a dentist going from the hitman to being a healer, and that's really what you describe is exactly what that is is. You know, we didn't cause your problem and I'm not here to berate you about how we got there or to, you know, shame you.

Speaker 3:

You know, for you know, having your teeth the way it is, like I'm, you know I'm here to help you and you know, and it starts by just what you said. It starts by how may I help you? What do you desire? Because sometimes and I see this a little in Full Arch sometimes our desires to do a certain procedure will drive the case and we, we will miss sometimes the patient's desire for maybe something else. Yeah, and, and I, and I will tell you I have, uh, a lot of.

Speaker 3:

It starts by by prejudging people and like it's the hardest thing not to do in dentistry and if, when you learn not to. It's the hardest thing not to do in dentistry. And when you learn not to, it opens the doors. And what I'm talking about is you know we all thin slice everybody that walks in the doors in nanoseconds by, like you know some people call it your fight or flight, but like we thin slice them in like, oh, you know they look dirty, they talk funny. You know they don't have any money. You know they drove a piece of shit car. Know they look dirty, they talk funny. You know they like they don't have any money. You know they drove a piece of shit car. You know, like, whatever it is. And all of a sudden you're like god, do it? Am I gonna go into my whole full arch fixed?

Speaker 3:

you know, thing you know, or like I think they're.

Speaker 3:

I think they'd be a better, I think they'd be better over denture, canada, yeah, and early in my career, like the hard thing about the hard thing about it for me was I was in a town of 1,000 people.

Speaker 3:

I knew most of the people and my perception was that person can't afford this so I would just go straight to the overdenture and hope that I could get that. But the reality is, if you do a good job of showing them value in what you're doing, the healing portion of it because we all want to be healed, right. So when you show them the healed portion, they may not be able to afford it, but you know what their dad, their mom, their brother, their aunt, their sister, they may borrow the money, they may go to Prusik, they can do all these things, but they don't know that they can do those because we didn't show them, because we shut down when we saw them drive up in the rusted out Corolla. Yeah, and dentistry is hard in that aspect because we do prejudge people. But we can open our minds to just talking to every single patient about what like, what is possible for them, and then let them.

Speaker 2:

Let them decide absolutely the first thing that I ask in a consult is what is your goal here? You know, why do you? Every patient first thing I say is what is your goal? And you know why do you? Every patient first thing I say is what is your goal? And then you know, like you said, maybe they don't have enough money to to afford the procedure. But if their goal is to get into fixed a fixed, you know they don't want their denture anymore, they're sick of it.

Speaker 2:

Or they come in with, you know, bombed out teeth and they're not interested in a denture and they just want to get something that's fixed in a place.

Speaker 2:

Well, I'll at least go through my whole console with them and I'll work with them as much as I can to get to get them there, or at least give them some ideas, so that way when they're ready for it, I'm here for them.

Speaker 2:

Or you know, if their goal is just they just want to smile and they don't care about if it's fixed in a place, they just want something to replace their teeth, well then of course I'm not going to go into the whole fixed spiel. So I think it's important, like you say, to get an idea of what they're there for and what you know, and once you know that you can tailor your presentation towards that and you are going to get so much more success with one you know, closing the cases, and two with at least you know they're going to think that you're listening to them, so they're going to appreciate that and whenever they are ready to get whatever they need done, you're there for them and they're not going to go to anybody else because you were the one that was actually there listening to them.

Speaker 3:

Right, you know, one of the most basic desires of the human is to be heard. Basic desires of the human is to be heard and we sometimes don't give them the opportunity to speak the way they do. And I think you are exactly correct. Like, I feel it's really important to you know, like ask them those questions right, and then shut up and listen or let them talk and I know we're on timeframes and things but, like you know, when you, when you're talking about a dual arch in the money and stuff, like like they, they deserve to be heard and you know, maybe being heard is like telling you that they didn't, like you know where they were at is in their deluge or they may be.

Speaker 3:

Being heard is like my, you know, I made it 20 more years than my parents, you know, before they lost their teens. Or my grandparents, you know, whatever it is right, but like they, they want to get it off their chest and they want to talk to you about it. And then, when they've been heard, the conversation is over and now you can. Now you can go to work and fixing, you know, fixing them, and they will feel like they can go forward with treatment because, by God, that doctor. He listened to me. He listened to me and he laid out a green plan that I understood and found a way for me to afford to be able to do that. And that person is what you're trying to create and that's a. That's a raving fan Like you're. You're trying to go, you're trying to create raving fans, and here's someone else and you'll you'll create a lot more of them.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, and I think that really is the key to flipping that whole problem-solution dynamic you were talking about, Because if they lead with the reason that they're there and all the things that their conditions have taken from them, then you're presenting a solution at the end. But if you just lead with trying to fit this person into a box, then you've created a problem for them and they're trying to run away from it. It's not like they've kind of led themselves to water. You know they're they're trying to run away from it. You know it's not like they've kind of led themselves to water. You're trying to distract them to it and that, and that's just not going to create a fan.

Speaker 3:

Like you said, if you, if you, if you take that, you know, like that, if you, if you operate in that domain and your practice, like you know you'll have, you know you'll, you'll have an abundance of patience, but then you know, you take that out into the, into the rest of your life, and that is like you know, something like, though, you know, most people just need to get out of their own way. Yeah, you know, and I know you hear that sometimes you're like, oh, that's kind of corny, but like, the reality is like the, the only self-limiter you have in life is yourself. You know, and like you want to. Yeah, I mean, you guys know it. Like you know, like in 2010, I left my, you know my, my hometown of a thousand people where I built this big dodge model to myself for a practice, and that I decided you know what I, you know I was doing.

Speaker 3:

It was not a bright thing. I was. I was doing 300, 320 implants a year pretty consistently, one season, two seasons and then some overdentures, but not real big fixed work like that and I decided that's what I want to do. So I talked to my family and I said, listen, we're going to move two hours north to Rapid City, south Dakota, and we're going to. I'm going to open an implant-only practice from scratch. I'm going to rent two operatories from an oral surgeon who doesn't place implants and I'm going to make my business completely referral-based from the other dentist. Like no outside marketing, no direct to consumer or anything like that. And I, you can imagine, like most people in 20, it's a different environment than Tuesday Like yeah, that guy's crazy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3:

You know you can't do that and I was like, okay, well, I mean, maybe it proves out that I can't. I said, but would you let me into your office? Could I buy your office lunch and talk to your team about what it would be like to implement good implants into your practice and have restorable implants for you? If you could see yourself doing that, I think that I could show you a way to serve your patients and, you know, you know even be more profitable at it. And you know I did lunch and learns in every damn office that would let me in and I bought lunches and cookies and bagels and, like you, the fastest way to a dentist's office is through the stomach of the front desk and I would like I would serve that, that through the stomach of the front desk, and I would like I would serve that, that that community.

Speaker 3:

And you know when I, uh, when I left, uh, when I moved to scottsdale, you know to to you know the second, the second epiphany you know that I did was like you know what I'd done this implant thing like that. And you know my next, and I got divorced so I didn't have to convince my family to move again but, uh, my kids were grown, but, um, I was like you know what I want? To go, I'm going to go make my living giving back and teaching people like, ah, nobody does that, you know, make their living, you know, in education. And I was like, well, why couldn't I? I said like, like I can only do so many and so many implants with my hands. Yeah, but training people to go do that. I mean like, like, think about the people that I can serve, you know, by secondary intent, right, like like you know, uh, as it goes out there and exponential impact yeah, you know, and that's what I, that's what I set out to, that's what I sent out to create.

Speaker 3:

And, you know, I didn't know like where I'm at today, like I had no idea that's what I would, you know, I would be doing.

Speaker 1:

But like I knew I, you know, I knew what I wanted to do yeah and it just kind of morphed in along the way and I was I'm super happy to be that space have you ever sat down and kind of done the calculus on you know how many doctors have come through pathway maybe an average amount of their placing per year and just try to kind of get an idea of how many implants have sort of been placed as a secondary result of you starting pathway?

Speaker 3:

You know I thought about doing that before I asked. You know, asked by our license one time. I'm just like, hey, let's like you know, like there's myself. And then there's like you know the accounts that you know. You know that may have been created from, you know, pathway, and I'm just like like do you have a number? And they were just like that may have been created from Pathway. And I'm just like, do you have a number?

Speaker 1:

And they were just like it's got to be a lot, and that's what I thought I mean that's great, but what's the number?

Speaker 3:

And they're just like, yeah, we don't know. Do you really want to know? And I was like, no, I'm not about numbers, I don't even like to say how many plans I did when I was back in my little hotel, but, like, like the reality was I, I set out to in my little hometown, like I set out to, uh, I had a motto that we had on the top of a whiteboard in our break room and it was no dentures, partials or bridges. That was, that was, that was my motto. And there's almost exceptions, right, like like money and bad bone and bad humans and stuff, but like, like, uh, like there's always but, but our, our, I call it an implant focused practice. And that is like we're going to provide true truth replacement solutions for our patients.

Speaker 3:

And I, I, I told like kind of just goes back to like, I try to put these life experiences in. You know that day one of uh, you know fast track, and I, I tell them all, I said, no, you're all going to be in a little bit of an ethical dilemma when you leave Pathway. But they all kind of look at me like, what does that mean? I said, well, all of you are just in general dentistry right now and you're going to go home and I guarantee you by the end of the month you're all up down a bridge. And I said the ethical dilemma for me and maybe I'm not putting you said, you know, like the ethical dilemma for me and maybe I'm not putting you in one, but like the ethical dilemma for me was I couldn't in good faith tell my patients to have a procedure done that I would have never had done to myself for yourself.

Speaker 3:

You know right, like, like, if, if I had the ability to have an implant in a missing tooth site, you know, regardless of the conditions on the other teeth, because, like that doesn't matter, like it's not something that I would have done to myself and I can't do it to someone else, and it's not a, it's not an elitist standpoint, it's just like I don't want to do that. Uh, and it car it, it causes you to sometimes turn a patient away. You know it's usually the one that's like, well, my insurance patient, the branch is like, well, like, listen, like, like you know, if you're, if you broke your arm and your insurance only paid for an amputation, like you'd probably pull. You'd probably pull out a pot, like keep your arm. And you know, my assistants are always like oh, that's such a terrible analogy and I said, I know, but like, like, your teeth are fucking important. Yeah, like, like, stop. Yeah, it's the same.

Speaker 2:

It is no 100. That is I actually. I I like that analogy it.

Speaker 1:

It's not bad.

Speaker 3:

It's good, I might have to use that.

Speaker 1:

It's not bad, I think I learned from someone else.

Speaker 2:

Okay. So just going back a little bit, just so I get a full scope, because I don't really know your whole story. It sounds like you went to, you live in a small town and then you moved, did your own implant office and then you went and started Pathways. Is there some stuff I'm missing in there? We'd love to kind of listen to the whole journey to where Pathway is now and then even going into maybe how Pathway started, what you first started offering and then what Pathway has to offer now how it grew as an operation.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, man, I'm from a small uh, I'm the fifth generation to grow on my, on my family's cow ranch and uh farm as well, and uh, um, you know, I don't know anything other than cows and wheat. You know, like my dad's a fourth generation, you know my brother still works out there. Like I don't, like, uh, I didn't have dentistry in my blood. Nor, you know, when I went to the university of Nebraska, you know, in 1989, like it was to uh, uh, drink beer, watch college football, I'm going to get an ag degree and go back home and do the same thing that. You know, the five generations before me, you know the you know the four generations for me did it themselves and I got into implant dentistry. Or I got into dentistry from a mentor who actually turned out to be my uh implant uh mentor. Uh, roger Pluster in Lincoln, nebraska. He was also from my hometown. Uh, there's only two ABOI. There's only two ABOI diplomats uh, in the entire state of Nebraska and they're uh, they're both from my hometown of a thousand people in western Nebraska.

Speaker 3:

It's kind of uh anyway uh, you know, I ended up going to dental school in Oklahoma and I had some, met some great people and got a great education. And I went home and uh practiced and then ultimately bought out my childhood dentist, uh and um, you know, along the way I should have in uh 80 or in 98 uh, I'd made a trip to napa uh when I was in dental school. That presented as the paper they got as the meeting and san fran went to napa valley and up even to spring mountain and uh got the bug. So went home back to the ranch and I planted a vineyard. Uh planted five acres of wine grapes in nebraska and then in 2000 uh started the. Uh started the third bonded winery in the state of nebraska. Uh, then uh, in 2006 I I sold it to my winemaker and I sold it because, you know, the, the dentistry and the implant dentistry in my practice was taking off and the money I could make and support my family. There was just so much different than agriculture so I moved. That was my first entrepreneurial activity was planting a vineyard, selling it, building it up and selling it and then I'd gone.

Speaker 3:

Obviously, in the early 2000s I'd gone to Mish. That was the only place you could go. I went to learn from Carl himself out in Detroit, went there nine times to learn and came home and I implemented it. You know, to learn and came home and I implemented it. And you know the people on Western Nebraska, like you know, like rural, rural farmers and ranchers, like you know, they have money but they they don't spend it unless they they see a value or like they're very like, they're kind of a tough sell because they don't like if they don't see the value that they're not going to write a check for. And uh, so, uh, I was able, I'm able to talk their language because I'm from that, you know, and business took off and implants and I, I found, like you guys, like, like, implants is all I want to do, you know, like it's the gratification of the, the, the, the job satisfaction that I got from and I didn't get from anything else in dentistry and I think that had I not got into implants, you know, hey, we wouldn't be talking that be, uh, uh. I think I don't know if I would have stayed in denver. I think I would have probably ended up just ranching and farming with my dad because, like that, that was a more, that was more passionate than I was for general industry and I think I would have went that direction.

Speaker 3:

So in around 2009, I started. It was tough economic time but I really wanted to do more implants and I was like you know, the only way I can I'm maxed out on like my airhead. You know they were already starting to drive hundreds of miles to see me because there was no one else out in this part of the country placing implants. I was like I need more people. I moved two hours up to South Dakota, naurupt City. I went from a town of 1,000 people to some more zeros, to almost 100,000. I started marketing myself. I went from general dentistry to an implant-only shop I ran that from. I was there from 2010 to mid-2017. Then I moved down here. I'll come back to that in a second. I moved down here at you probably know Chris Barrett we just had him on.

Speaker 2:

We just had him on.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I don't know if he said that or not.

Speaker 2:

He did.

Speaker 3:

Chris went from general dentistry to implants to. He moved to Rapid City and was my associate in there during A the years during my divorce. But when I went off to go, uh, get a implant, uh, pathway, and what came about by really, you know, you know bio horizons and and icad and some of the imaging places like they would they started asking me if I would speak to, like the study clubs and like I just remember, like the, the like today I would never actually do what I did that day and it's because they. The first gig I had was uh, uh in albany, new york, at the albany county study club and actually it was the albany county world surgeons study club and I was to go up there and talk about restorations on implants.

Speaker 3:

And uh, from rapid city, south dakota, I flew from rapid to denver, denver to newark, newark to albany all day long so I had to leave on wednesday to do a thursday night presentation, and then you can't leave that night, so then it was all day friday to come back and I and I literally did it for my travel and expenses, and you know. So you took three days off and I fucking loved it, like it was like, and you know, and you got good reviews and they started asking you to do it more and more. And then I had the conversation with you know it was Steve Bogan, who's the CEO of BioHorizons, who would be an amazing guest for you on this, by the way.

Speaker 2:

Definitely.

Speaker 3:

These guys. There are a couple of biomechanical engineers that started BioHorizons in Birmingham and Alabama and it's now the third largest implant company in the world.

Speaker 3:

They did it in 30 years. Anyway, at the same time around this time, you know, uh, coral mish got sick with a glioblastoma and uh, uh, steve was like like there's gonna be a void, justin, and he goes like there isn't anybody out there. That's got, you know, the the kind of passion that you do and he kind of encouraged me to, you know, do some more courses. Wasn't like necessarily, hey, go create this like big thing. You know, like like you should step into that. And he goes because you're just, you know, you're one of, I was one of two of carl's first masterships that he gave.

Speaker 3:

So, like it was, it was the right time for me personally as well. So went down there and leased out this eight chair old clinic and put some chairs in there and some computers and convinced Acteon to drop a CVCT in there, cause now I didn't have money to like like build this Dodge mall or anything. And that's how it. That's how it got started. And you know, chris Barrett was working my office back in rapid and uh, uh, you know he was flying down, you know, basically every other week, you know, to mentor the courses and you know and teach with me. And I just remember, one day, you know, chris said yeah, because I don't think I really want to live in Rapid anymore.

Speaker 1:

And. I was like I don't like going to shit.

Speaker 3:

Then I was like you know, justin, you don't either.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

And I was like, yeah, you're right, man. So I said, well, what do you want to do? And he's just like I don't know. He's like I love Scottsdale and I love there all the time and I said you know what I said let's pack up everything and wrap it. Let's find a space in Scottsdale and let's drop it in and let's go. And that's how his office and ultimately was the Brightly thing Ultimately. That's how it got started. Instead of just pulling the plug and plug and wrapping, I'm just like shit. We got a whole office full of stuff like we don't need anything. Just let's, let's find a different place.

Speaker 3:

We moved out and, uh, you know that part's. You know, chris is, you know, a dear, dear friend of mine and one of the most gifted surgeons that I know, amazing, and if I was to say something about him, I would tell you that you'll be hard pressed to find someone that is as clean of a surgeon as him, like his incisions are always on point, they're always full thickness, reflected, the Alvy is like he put a planer on it, you know, and lately you run it through a damn. Uh, you know a table saw, you know, like it's perfect and and it, he's a and he's good, yeah, which checks a lot of boxes for me. So, uh, you know, we, which checks a lot of boxes for me. So we went through, we grew Pathway, you know, through the years of 2020 came around, covid came around and there was a.

Speaker 3:

We really needed to expand the clinic, we needed more chairs for the surgeries and, you know, in March you know, march was kind of funny because we're leasing this new space so we signed this lease for this new space and then Proven hits and then I'd hired Steve Vorholt and literally he moved to Arizona six days before we closed, the world closed, and I was just like sorry, buddy, but at the end of the day we spent all the lockdown redoing lectures and paperwork and fine-tuning the machine and doing the things that he did.

Speaker 3:

And I took a gamble on myself and I was like you know what, this is going to wreck a lot of people, but when we come out of this, people are going to need education and so we put the hammer down on building out that space and shit. We did our first live surgery. We closed the 20th of March and we did the first, uh, live surgery. We did our. We closed the 20th of march and we did, uh, the first fast track. I think that second or third of may. Oh, wow, we were.

Speaker 3:

We were like, and you know, arizona was open and so many of these things. You know how washington was closed for almost six months. You know. So like, uh, all these people came there because they, their practices were still slow or not open and they, they you know I had some covet money and that, uh, we just started like and that's what just really like ramped us because we kind of had center stage without anyone else, like in that parameter, and the people that are involved with pathway, the, the mentors, like I've only as good as people that I have around me, I'm like like there's some OG mentors that are the best of class and they, they give it their time and and we put out.

Speaker 3:

I think we put out a. You know, I think we put out a good product and I know that I know this from all the docs out there that do do a good job and like, uh, that's what I'm most proud of. You know, like I'm I'm, you know I'm proud of my boys. Uh, you know, proud of my two boys. Like you know, that would always be number one for me, uh, but you know, second off would be, you know, uh, I'm proud of the, the, the environment of that, and the family that we've created with pathway, cause that's uh, uh, yeah, like that is my family.