The Fixed Podcast

Remote Anchorage and Full Arch Excellence with Dr. Simon Oh: Part 2

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Unlock the secrets of advanced implant dentistry with insights from Dr. Soren Paape, Dr. Tyler Tolbert, and Dr. Simon Oh. This episode promises to enhance your understanding of the PATZI protocol for six implants and the strategic use of pterygoid implants in the maxilla. We'll discuss the complexities of adapting these techniques to individual patient needs, including nerve lateralization and the critical importance of informed consent. Prepare to gain a comprehensive view of the procedural and financial nuances of advanced implant practices.

Explore the balancing act of treating traveling patients, where we unravel the intricacies of strategic pricing, recovery timelines, and managing expectations. The conversation extends to the ripple effect of influencer marketing in dentistry, particularly how platforms like TikTok are reshaping patient awareness and expectations. Discover how prominent social media personalities impact the perception of dental procedures, fueling curiosity and demand for innovative treatments, and learn how this digital landscape can be both a boon and a challenge for practitioners.

Finally, join us in celebrating the incredible work of ORCA, an organization making strides in global dental care. Listen as Dr. Oh shares ORCA's mission to provide dental services to underserved populations, highlighting their pioneering efforts in Guatemala and upcoming plans for expansion. From revolutionary techniques to opportunities for professional involvement, this episode shines a light on how ORCA is paving the way for accessible dental care worldwide. Get inspired by stories of transformation and the ethical considerations driving these life-changing initiatives.

Tyler Tolbert:

My name is Dr Tyler Tolbert and I'm Dr Soren Papi, and you're listening to the Fixed Podcast, your source for all things implant dentistry.

Soren Paape:

I have a question going back to what we were talking about earlier. You know we were talking about pterygoids and traditional all-in-four, are you? You know something that me, tyler, our partner Caleb and some of the other doctors we work with, our partner Caleb and some of the other doctors we work with we're kind of at a point now where we are following at least like the Patsy protocol, as far as doing six implants kind of every time that we can.

Soren Paape:

You know, on the mandibular if you can place straights and in the upper if you can place pterygoids, we're doing that for basically every case. You have a couple offices right Smart Arches. Are you guys all kind of doing that similar approach? Are you doing standard all-on-four for patients that get to that first molar occlusion?

Simon Oh:

you know we encourage pterygoid anchorage for the maxilla, for sure it's. It's not the easiest thing to standardize surgical protocols because you know it's, every case is different and there's a rationale for as long as it's thought through and the success rate is good. You know, that's my requirement really. I, uh, you know, for the upper, yeah, six implants is what we shoot for um, just just because of um the bone quality. You know, like I, I think the, the sort of guidelines we have are very sort of rudimentary. You know it's like four implants, okay, 130 newton centimeters of torque composite, okay, and that's really it. You know, maybe two liters plus of implant length, but there's not really much more than that. You know there's. And what are we up against? We have differing bone qualities, differing amounts of cortication of certain areas, differing angles. You know, arch forms, yeah, I think there's a lot more study that needs to go into it, but for me my sort of go-to is yeah, upper patsy.

Tyler Tolbert:

Lower two is yeah, upper patsy lower uh four plus two if possible um, without risk injury to the nerve?

Soren Paape:

you know, yeah, for sure. Are you doing any nerve lateralization for patients that? You know, are in a situation where they can't even get like a standard.

Simon Oh:

Four um, yeah, I mean it. It really is case dependent. But yeah, I mean I that that is in in the toolbox. I don't like to do them just because the rate of initial paresthesia is very high. It exceeds 80, maybe even 90 percent. I don't remember what the statistic was, remember what the statistic was, but that that to me is enough of a risk to sort of have that conversation of you know it's. It all goes back to informed consent, like would you rather have risking a nerve injury and maybe one more tooth on your prosthesis, or would you rather have a more constricted arch and not have to worry about that? It's really their call, you know. So I don't really know what the answer is to that. I don't try to make those decisions for them, you know yeah.

Tyler Tolbert:

And it's also it's it's kind of difficult to really prepare a person for paresthesia if they've never had it. So it's like you know, is that a problem you really want or not? I mean, it's kind of even difficult to fully inform. It's just, you know, I think it's kind of a case by case thing where you know someone just has to have. You know not that I do this, but I would think in my hands it would have to be someone to where I really felt strongly that a shortened arch is still going to have too much of a cantilever because that middle frame is just way too interior and I'm not really going to be able to do what I would even call an all in four.

Simon Oh:

No for sure, you never know how somebody is going to be with paresthesia. Just from patient experience, I have lingual paresthesia for my wisdom teeth still, oh, wow, okay.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, I had an OS resident do them when I was a first-year dental student and I guess my tongue was numb for several months and started trickling back, but it was. It was maddening at first, like it was. It was like I can't stand this, you know, and it's, it doesn't hurt, you know, it's just like what the hell? So so yeah, I mean that that experience to me makes me a little bit wary of like, but you know. Then again, like you know, whether it be iatrogenic or just from retracting the nerve or something, some people do get numb for some time and they're fine, you know. So, like I don't know, I have no clue as to like how somebody is going to do with that, as to like how somebody is going to do with that. So, if there is a case where a nerve lateralization is really needed, just a very thorough discussion setting expectations. I think that's the most important thing.

Soren Paape:

Sure, of course, yeah, definitely. So I would love to kind of get into a little bit about maybe some questions about your office, and you're more than welcome to share as much as you want and as little as you want. And then let's jump in and talk a little bit about Orca.

Tyler Tolbert:

For sure.

Soren Paape:

So the questions I have are I'd love to hear a little bit about, maybe, the volume that you're doing that's just like traditional all-in-four, the volume that you're doing more, just like traditional all-in-four. The volume that you're doing more remote anchorage, like zygomatic implants. And then I'm curious what you guys charge for zygomatic implants, like if that's required, are patients paying up front for that? Are they paying extra when you go that route for them? And then I'm curious what you guys do for patients that fly in for revisions. Are they paying like full price for their cases? Are you guys so like at my office you know we have some patients that travel and typically like my incentive to them is I'll pay for their hotel and their flight as like a discount to get them to come in for that. And yeah and yeah, I'm just curious kind of those specifics for your practice if you're willing to share.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, sure. So in terms of like ratio of conventional to zygomatic, that's an interesting question. You know I would always. My gut tells me probably 10-ish percent are zygomatic cases, and that has evolved over time for a number of reasons. One, I got better and better at keeping things conventional, being very slick, with very limited bone stock, and so that made it go down. But then I started getting a lot of referrals for cases that needed Zygo, so it went back up again. So you know, right now I'd probably say anywhere from 10 to 20%. And yeah, it's been good.

Simon Oh:

In terms of, like, traveling patients, we don't, I don't know we haven't paid for flights or anything, at least for most, I forget. But for most or if not all, I mean I don't think we've offered to pay for flights or hotels or anything. And the fee is sort of the fee. We don't do value-based pricing where we see what the market is charging, we charge the same. We sort of do a cost plus pricing approach where it's like we look at our overhead, we look at what the cost of the procedure is ultimately going to cost us. You know all those things added up and then you know some some to to make a little bit of money, and so that's sort of how we we we do that. So it it really depends on, I guess, what kind of deals we have with vendors. But yeah, the fee is a fee. I mean we don't really discount in terms of like just because they're traveling, and in fact most of the time the ones that are traveling to us are the ones that sort of have the craziest yeah the hardest.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, the hardest ones. So like I also have to think about, like how many years of my life is this case going to take off, you know? So like I also have to think about, like how many years of my life is this case going to take off, you know, so like. So, yeah, it's, it's. It's kind of like a game time decision. I guess you could say in terms of like those because those are extremely complex, you know.

Soren Paape:

So yeah, that's for those traveling patients. Do they what? What kind of do you, what expectations you give them? So like, when they fly in right, let's say they fly in on a Monday they're doing surgery on Tuesday. You know they get there. Maybe do your records? Do your surgery get them in the prosthetic? Do you send them on the flight the day after? Like, how many days do you kind of want them to chill before they jump on a flight? What is kind of your protocol as far as that goes?

Simon Oh:

Yeah, that's a good question. So I don't advocate for going home right away. On a flight, especially if we have any kind of sinus involvement, the pressure changes can be painful and if there's an opening it will punch through when you go up in the air. So if you guys have ever had a water bottle on a flight, the thing crumples up when you're, you know. So you expand, you know all those, all of those things. Good pressure changes can really mess up your, your sinuses. So, um, I don't advocate for that.

Simon Oh:

I usually tell them to plan to stay for a week initially, so that I can do the surgery or do the records the day before the surgery. Surgery is the next day. Stay a week so I can see you a week later, make sure that things are healing right and then you can go home. And then after that, you know, sometimes they can get locally a CT scan. I always like to get CAT scans at the stability dip. So three, four weeks, you know I like to see what the bone looks like at that point and then after that, two months later, come back for records. New prototype, that's another week and then, as long as that's good, come back one more time for your finals. Goodbye, you know. Um, so that's typically, uh, that's usually like three trips, three trips going off of that.

Soren Paape:

I'm sorry I'm asking so many specific questions. These are just things that I've like thought of, as, as I've watched your, your instagram and people you've treat um, I know you've treated some, some pretty like prominent people that have a good social media presence, prominent people for you guys. Have you guys seen a good amount of people coming in from a lot of views on some of those videos and it's something that we've talked about, like maybe doing a case here and there for a paper? You know, like maybe it's it and and, but I'm curious what?

Simon Oh:

Yeah, no, no, that's a good question, I mean in terms of, like, the influencers. You know it has been good, I will say that, but, you know it, it really there's two sides to it, you know, because with sort of TikTok and the idea of like authenticity of your life, which is like very important to influencers, I guess, is it can be good for them but also kind of bad for people watching Because, like, if they're having like a complication or which is you know, they're going to broadcast that, yeah, yeah they're going to broadcast that people are watching intently because they're scared, they want to see what's going on.

Simon Oh:

That's going to freak them out and that may actually ultimately prevent them from seeking care. So, you know, it's kind of a catch-22. You know, I I think the awareness part of it's good, um, but I'm not sure in terms of like this, uh, what, what people are experiencing, um, and what kind of decisions are going to make as a result to it, um, but no, I mean, it has been pretty good. You know, um, the, uh, the, the, the, uh, sort of brand awareness has been positive, good, but you know, it's not like the end all be all. You know, I think it's cool and it's cool to help people that you know have that and hopefully, you know, it provides a positive message to everybody.

Soren Paape:

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's definitely spreading awareness, for I think no matter what, like what we found in the markets that we're in, is that some of these bigger companies, you know, like the Clear Choices and the Nubias, the people that are pumping marketing dollars into national commercials and stuff like that. It's great for the patients who just didn't know that it was a possibility, right, the patients who just didn't know that it was a possibility, right. And then they come into your office and now that they know that it's an option, it's cool that they're able to put that money out there so that we can have that awareness that this procedure exists, because without that it's really tough.

Soren Paape:

You know most patients I still have patients that come in and they're like, oh my gosh, I thought that all I could have was a denture or maybe a snap in right, but the fact that they can have a fixed prosthetic, they're kind of over the moon about that and they still haven't seen it. And I mean for us, you know, I see it every day nonstop. So it's kind of like crazy to think that there's so many people out there that don't even know that it's an option. And that's definitely something that in Tyler's market Tyler's in Tri-Cities, washington. I was just about to say, yeah, he just doesn't have a lot of that awareness, whereas I'm in Denver and Denver's the heart of Clear Choice, right, clear Choice has been here forever, so every single person and their mother knows exactly what an all-in-four is.

Tyler Tolbert:

Ever so, every single person and their mother knows exactly what an all-in-four is I'm in a land where people assume that you have to have the teeth pulled first and then you have to wait and then you have to get the implants and then you get your teeth later. In fact, some people will come to me and they just got their teeth extracted with their insurance and they come to me like, okay, I'm going to be ready for implants in three months. I'm like buddy, you, you killed me. You could have just got the free console. I could have told you all this we could have, we could have gotten it all out of the way.

Tyler Tolbert:

So, yeah, I mean where you're at in the end, the local marketing and you know who's, you know what kind of fish have already kind of exists in that pond, make a big difference in terms of how some of those consults go and the expectations that come along with it. And that's something I've definitely learned um being in a more you know rural part of america. It's like there's there's a whole new like re-education that has to happen. But you know he has people coming in and they're like so are you? You doing an all-in-six, you're doing pterygoids. What are you doing like a paloal approach guy and you like they're listening to his podcast. I yeah, it's like why'd you?

Simon Oh:

miss it were you not exactly, I do I I recently.

Soren Paape:

I recently had a patient that listened to every single one of my podcasts and she just like before I even said it, she was like quoting stuff. I was about to say and I'm like all right, well, are we gonna do this like you are? It sounds like you sold, like my podcast sold you, uh, but it is. It's a catch-22, right? Because because then all of a sudden, like if something happens, that isn't what you want, it's like oh man, like it, there's so much more at stake at that point.

Simon Oh:

Yeah they're looking for your axial accountability post make sure you hit the media wing, but uh, I think I think that the reason I brought that up in the first place was just that make sure you hit the media wing.

Soren Paape:

But I think the reason I brought that up in the first place was just that, good or bad. One of the positives of TikTok is spreading awareness for the fact that these procedures exist. But there probably isn't a large population, at least of the people that I'm treating in my office. Most of the people in my office at that age like aren't really on TikTok. Some are, but a majority are not. But it's it's good regardless to to bring that awareness out there.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, for sure. I mean it's going to be interesting what happens in January when it gets banned. I think Apple Store and Android have been told to stop putting it on there January 16th or something like that. I saw that yeah so it's going to be interesting to see where short-form video emerges.

Soren Paape:

to next A lot of teenagers won't be driving around in lamborghinis anymore. I know I've been.

Tyler Tolbert:

I've been working on my tiktok choreo for months and it's just going to waste.

Soren Paape:

That was my plan b um, so let's uh, let's talk a little about orca. I mean, I would love to to hear you know what, what the mission of orca, what people can expect, maybe at what point you'd recommend people going. I know that you guys have kind of like the you can just watch or you can go and actually get your hands wet. If you could give us a little overview of that. A lot of our listeners are kind of at the stage where they're doing a lot of all-in-four but maybe they aren't getting into remote Anchorage and they're at that point now where Orca would be an option for them.

Simon Oh:

Yeah for sure, orca is a very sort of unique and special thing. I think it's turned into something really cool. It sort of started with just hearing about the problems over there, so a very common practice. There's a large population that live in villages where they don't. They have shoddy electricity, you know, no community, no internet, stuff like that. So a very common practice for for this those sort of populations, is to, when they turn to become teenagers, the parents actually get enough money to send them into the city, pull all their teeth, put them in dentures, bring them back because a toothache is like a life ruiner.

Simon Oh:

You know there's no access to basic care there. So like that's sort of what's going on over there. So, you know, decades later, no bone, you know so. And then after that, no tools to help these people because you know nobody had placed igos down there. So, um, they've been sort of walking around like this for a long time. And so, um, I heard about this because my partner in orca, el dadrory, um, he, he went down there to do a singles implant course. He met rodrigo Cariaga, who's the head of implantology down there. He trained up at NYU, did the implantology fellowship, amazing people. So they met each other and they sort of talked and Eldad had known that I wanted to do something overseas to help people. I had always heard about CE courses that were sort of um uh in it for the for for sort of the education only, and then there's no restorative plan.

Simon Oh:

You know, like it's crazy, um, you're just basically cutting people open and leaving it, you know. So, like it's, it's crazy to me, and like I'm not having follow-up, they're having problems not getting prosthetics. So, um, that sort of um, uh piqued my interest because this is at a university, this is at the top university in Guatemala, university of Francisco Marroquin, which is highly respected. The facilities are unbelievable there it's the nicest dental school I'd ever been to, and so that really was interesting to me because, like, okay, it checks the boxes, needing, needed or population in need, a great facility and people that care, you know, like that, those were the sort of basics that I needed. So we went down there. I placed the first zygomatics in Central America a few years ago Nice Congrats.

Simon Oh:

And this patient that had been edentulous, going trying sinus lifts over and, over and over with no results for many, many years I don't remember the number, it was like 30-something years just no teeth. I go in there, do a quad, put her in teeth. She's just like crying, you know like it's, and so, like that, that I needed to also convince the school that this was, you know, because, like, nobody had heard of this before. So, like, I'm here and do what you know, yeah, yeah, exactly, I was like I have to make sure this case goes well. What you know, yeah, um, mad scientist, yeah, exactly, I was like I have to make sure this case goes well. You know, like, or else, like this is gonna be horrible. So, but we nailed it. Uh, we got it done. Uh, german lee, my lab tech I've been working with for a long time, came with me, did the conversion. Um, we did it in the or under general um, and it went very smoothly. Since then, they they were like okay, okay, we believe in it, but there's a lot of liability. So we're like, okay, so the expense that we take on by doing this is rather high because we have to provide for liability and pay the school, which is fine, though, because I want to make sure that the patients have really good follow-up, really good care afterwards. So, um, that's sort of what it turned into. We're like, okay, we can fund this through education. So I know a bunch of guys that are really good at this. Let's all get together, we'll have a great time.

Simon Oh:

Um, we, we do level two, which is conventional, all on four. We do that in under anesthesia in the clinics. It's under moderate sedation, sort of like a practice setting, and so we do that there. It's one to one mentorship, which I don't think anybody else can say. It's one-to-one mentorship with one of the best people out there, very experienced, and they're sort of over your shoulder. So it's a very orchestrated thing because we also have a prosthetic course going on at the same time so that we can get everything done as if we're in the practice at home. So the prosthetics course is led by Dr Adam Hogan, dr Keith Klaus, two of the very well-known guys at this. We're familiar, yeah, and they're just great people too. That's like one of my top roles is no D-bags. That's a very important role for me. So we have those guys and they teach the prosthetics course. So sorry, I'm kind of all over the place, but the way that works chronologically is first the digital prosthetics team with the participants comes in the weekend before the course starts. They take all the records, the prerecords on the patients over the weekend, design start getting done and then on Monday that's when we start.

Simon Oh:

So level two and three run simultaneously. Level two is the conventional stuff. So we pre-select these cases months before we get there to make sure it's appropriate. And we do it one-to-one mentorship. So the digital team will come in place the markers, do the initial scans, and then the surgical team will come in place the implants and do whatever surgery is needed. And then the surgical team will come in place the implants and, you know, do whatever surgery is needed. And then the digital team comes back in with photogrammetry. Sometimes we do segmark with the CT alignment technique and do the the the other scans, and then they get teeth right away. So that's the protocol on the level three side.

Simon Oh:

It's a little different. It's, as you know, as you guys know, it's more invasive. So full scope, remote anchorage, full scope, so anything from zygos, pterygoids, transnasals, multiple zygos, multiple, you know all these things. So that's run in the operating room, it's the OR, so it's run with one anesthesiologist each in each room, not like you know my experience and it's nasal intubation. We scrub in, we go in. Again, one-to-one care. So you're paired up with a participant. The faculty sits at the head, they split the case. So one side is half, the other side is half, and from there, same sort of protocol. Digital team comes in first places. A marker scans surgery is complete. Post-operative scans wake up, go and we, we, we do it all day long, uh, for four days, um and uh. After that, you know, we, we do a debrief on the last day we have fun each night.

Soren Paape:

You know it's.

Simon Oh:

It's a great time really good sort of very good spirit, because everybody there's there for a reason, you know it's. It's a purpose-driven sort of thing. Um and uh at the end of the the the course, you know, uh, every time we go down there, we're roughly at like the 55 arch uh, 60 arch uh range in terms of how many we've done that week. Um and uh, uh, we measure each time the amount of edentialism we stopped. So, um, each time we go down there, it's roughly 1200 years200 years of edentulism that we've ended that week, which is a pretty cool statistic. So it's like 20, 30 years each patient has not had teeth. So that's something that we're very proud of. We're really excited because we're ramping volume up soon. So the university has seen our success with how many people we've been helping. So they're actually building, uh, four additional operating rooms for us. So we're going to ramp things up in 2026. Um, so that's really cool. Um, you know we do this roughly twice a year. We're looking into increasing that frequency.

Simon Oh:

Um, another thing to note is that we are never sort of limited by one vendor, so it's not one vendor sponsoring the whole thing, and we did that because we didn't want them to control, you know, the educational process, the protocol, and that way people can sort of see what is actually best for that clinical application. So we have many different vendors that provide supplies, and these are all people that actually care. They care to donate products to help these people out and be a part of something that is sort of beneficial for humanity. So, you know, and of course they get new customers. Hopefully we want to help support the sponsors too by helping them, you know. So you know, and of course they, they get, you know, new customers.

Simon Oh:

Hopefully, you know, we want to help support the sponsors too by helping them and so like it's a very sort of symbiotic thing that we have going on. It's very um, it's very well cultivated, I think, because people involved in it, um, but yeah, in terms of education, we wanted it to be the best educational experience and so like there's there's no judgment, you know, we try to keep it very, very friendly and the learning experience to being optimized. So that's why we do the Zygos in the OR. Under general, they are paralyzed, you know, because we don't want to have to converse about like hey, you need to give more local here, or like, hey, they're really feeling it, or you know. So we want to be able to talk freely and not freak the patient out if somebody is not, you know, at the right trajectory, you know.

Tyler Tolbert:

So it's, it's yeah, exactly yeah, that's all fat.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, hopefully not, but yeah, that'd be, that'd be a bad day.

Simon Oh:

Luckily, we have never done that, but yeah, our success rates do measure that we do care about that Patients are being well taken care of by the residency programs, so the prosthodontic residency program and in fact we are planning to launch the oral surgery program there because they don't have one. One of the things we do on the side at the university, sort of through ORCA, is we do a lot of odd pathology. So in Guatemala there's not much access to like really upper end oral maxillofacial surgery. So you know a bunch of my friends, kathan Patel, steve Yusupov, zach Brown, which is also an ORCA instructor, and Joe Camerata, who's an oral surgeon and plastic surgeon, which is crazy. We all go down to sort of cut out these enormous amyloblastomas, huge tumors. We did a myxoma of this one girl. I have the model right here. Oh sweet, this was a nine-year-old girl. This is her jaw.

Tyler Tolbert:

Oh my gosh, geez I think I may have seen this case.

Simon Oh:

That's insane, that yeah so, uh, obviously this is from lack of access to. Would you ever see this in the states?

Simon Oh:

no, no, no chance right like no chance and so like that's the sort of stuff that goes down down there. So, um, on the side we do a lot of these cases because the faculty they're bringing to our attention like hey, can we help this person? So I'm like, yeah, let's, let's get all this stuff down, uh, get all these people down, and we go to the pediatric uh hospital. Uh, do these fibulas in the? Or we've done a bunch already. Um, we're looking to get left, left and palate and yeah, it's sort of become like this thing where, like it's just driven because we want to help these people out, you know, and so it's been really cool and we have the resources and connections to make it happen. So why not, you know? So that's sort of the long and short of it.

Simon Oh:

With Orca, we're really excited to see where it goes. You know, we've gotten a lot of interest from other countries. So we're talking with people in Ghana through Tarun Kirpalani, oral surgeon in New Jersey. He's an Orca alumni and we had contact in Trinidad. We talked to a team in Puerto Rico. So there's a lot of sort of interest there. So we'll see where it goes. But you know, again, it's very strict in terms of what we need is great follow up, great, you know, patients that need it and us being able to do it.

Tyler Tolbert:

So yeah, yeah, I mean that's amazing. No-transcript.

Simon Oh:

You know, I, I think it just sort of goes. I mean, that's just what I want to do, and that's sort of the idea behind smart arches, too, is like okay, like we could charge 30, 40 000 an arch. I've heard places in new york charging like 200 grand for a double. Oh my god, that dude like are you serious? Like oh my god, like that. Uh, that's like the. The sort of thing with us is like we've we all found the hack of digital which reduces our overhead, of course, yeah, you know, it increases success, and so like. Instead of yeah, I mean value-based pricing, higher, you know, um, we made the investment, all these things, better results, higher price, um, but for us, we actually lowered it so that we can pass it on yeah

Soren Paape:

more people you know it's, it's a good thing.

Simon Oh:

Um, you know, I'm also trying to figure out a way to fund uh charity cases for that too. Uh, dr brie smith, who you guys may know, he's actually doing stand-up at at the orchestra, really, oh, really hilarious, um but uh, but yeah he was something called the halo dental network.

Simon Oh:

I have heard that, yeah, yeah, they give out or they give funding or connections for people to get their teeth done by somebody who's willing to be philanthropic. And yeah, I've just been trying to figure out how to get consistent funding to do that in the US. It's just been a challenge. I did meet some really interesting people that you know we can really make a difference if, if, the strategy works out. But yeah, time will tell.

Tyler Tolbert:

Sure, sure, yeah. So we brought up the symposium there. I definitely want to make sure that we talk about that, cause that's coming up here pretty soon. I think it was January 17th and 18th in Las Vegas. We're doing the there. I've seen the lineup. It's incredibly impressive, the kind of speakers that you've gotten to come through. So if you wouldn't mind giving us kind of an elevator pitch of what people could expect if they should attend, yeah, you know, we, we wanted it to be the symposium to be a little bit different.

Simon Oh:

For one, we wanted to be a little bit different. You know, a lot of symposiums sort of talk about all the same stuff the whole time. You know that like, maybe you pick up one or two good things every hour. You know like that's, that's not very efficient, you know. So that that kind of bothered me and so we wanted to do something a little different where we had many different topics from people in that industry, you know, and people that actually practice this stuff, and so get perspectives from all different angles and get perspectives from people that you normally don't talk to.

Simon Oh:

So, you know, we have we have the Prasad with Dr Sven Bone. You guys don't need to talk to him. He's not only a prosthodontist, he's also a mathematician and a physicist the most credible person. So he's talking about that, about PROS. We have a slew of oral surgeons at the top of the industry. We got Juan, we got Camerrata, we got vichy, we got, you know, steve yusupov and patel talking about microvascular and implants. Um, kamrata is talking about, uh, the facial skeleton, um, you know, as it relates to fuller, and so uh and um, yeah, we have ent. So my brother-in-law is a fellowship trained rhinologist, so the guy that we usually he's the guy on the other side of the curtain, you know, the guy behind me you know what I mean.

Simon Oh:

So, like, he's going to talk about sinus disease and how to manage sinusitis with, as it relates to zygos, what happens to the oral antral fistula, what are the actual options. You know we always hear FESS, but like there are many different types of sinuplasty, you know. So he's going to talk about that too. Anesthesia as well from you know my anesthesiologist, dr Goberon. He worked in cardiac for a very long time, so he's he's very well versed in this stuff, um, so yeah, I mean, that's, that's sort of it.

Simon Oh:

We wanted to be in a very cool place which is going to be in Las Vegas at the Wynn hotel, um, going to be. There's going to be a lot of different sponsors, a lot of great people there that you know you can talk to about products, um, and then after, at the end of each of the days we're going to, you know, have a great time. You know, I think a lot of the people that sort of come to Orca events are we're all sort of intermingled, you know, we all know who each other are, you know, but like, maybe not all that well, and so I think it'll be a nice experience of not only education and learning cool stuff, but also networking and at a cool place, I think, especially in January.

Simon Oh:

we wanted to be somewhere where the climate's kind of, you know, nice. I can't stand January, February. So you guys ever noticed the Orca events are in January and February.

Tyler Tolbert:

There's no coincidence.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, so that's sort of yeah, yeah, that's that's how that works, but, um, but we're really hoping that people have a great time. Um, we're, we're looking into throwing a pretty cool party on saturday, so, um, and then friday, I think there's like a bowling event going on at night, um, so, yeah, uh, you guys both coming so, uh, soren's going to be on vacation.

Tyler Tolbert:

I don't know what he's thinking.

Soren Paape:

But yeah.

Tyler Tolbert:

I definitely intend on coming Tyler and.

Soren Paape:

Caleb are there. They're instructed to take lots of notes and fill me in on what I'm missing out. But I saw it like I think you guys post it like probably like a year ago, maybe eight months ago, and I was the first one to post in the group. I'm like guys, we got to make this happen and then, of course, I like forget about it, book my vacation and I'm at the point now where if I back out of the vacation, my girlfriend would not be stoked with me.

Simon Oh:

All right, this is the plan. We're gonna get an optimist robot, we're gonna put an ipad on the head and we're going to get an Optimus robot. We're going to put an iPad on the head and you're going to face the whole time as you walk around the place We'll call up Elon, one of those robots he had at his convention.

Tyler Tolbert:

That's great. I'm sure it's going to be a really good time. Where can people go? We'll put something in the show notes to help people figure out where to sign up for the course and everything. Yeah, I'm absolutely stunned by the lineup. I've never seen such a star-studded cast of Full Arch folks. You've got Dr Ole Jensen, David Zellig, I mean you've got some real OGs in here. This is crazy.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, no, all the guys.

Tyler Tolbert:

I mean, I can't even list. It's all people that deserve their own sort of you know they can all have their own symposium.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, exactly yeah, zellig Oli, yeah, all these guys are just unbelievable. Not only speakers and intellectuals, but also people, you know, like they're good people. Again, that's like our requirement there. But yeah, I mean you know our, uh, our requirement there, um, but um, but yeah, I mean, uh, you know, uh, looking forward to seeing you there. Uh, so, aaron, you know, hope, uh, hope, you enjoy your time with your girlfriend.

Soren Paape:

Uh yeah, it'll be, it's, it's been. It's been like a couple of years since I've gone on a legit vacation, so, uh, it's, it'll be good. I've gone on a legit vacation, so it'll be good. You know I need it.

Simon Oh:

I need to take a week off, but I'm very annoyed that it happens to be on the weekend of Orca.

Soren Paape:

Well, we'll let you know when the next one is. Yeah, I'll definitely be there, and Tyler and I will definitely be at the Orca in Guatemala at some point as well.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, oh yeah. I forgot to mention like, if, if you're not for people that don't want to go into life surgery, you can just come down and observe, be with us you know wash stuff, that's also an option. So yeah, just you know, orcaglobalcom is the website for all that stuff, you know.

Tyler Tolbert:

Perfect, perfect, perfect. All right. Well, dr O, thank you so much for sparing some time to come on and talk about your story. Your impact on not just the dental world but the world and what you're able to do and taking what we do and democratizing it to so many needy populations is an amazing thing. I'm so happy to hear that it's grown so much since even just the last time we spoke, so that's really amazing. I hope everyone you know sees that. You know ORCA is really the nexus of you know the people that are really practicing this at the top of our field and I hope people are looking into that. You know, hopefully going to the symposium and you know they'll might find themselves in Guatemala or Tahiti or wherever else you were talking about going with Orca. So again, thank you so much for coming on. We really appreciate it. We hope to talk to you again soon and I can't wait to see where you guys are next.

Simon Oh:

Yeah, sounds good. Thanks a lot, guys for having me and great to be here.