The Fixed Podcast

FIXED x Dr. Simon Oh: Ending Toothlessness: Orca’s Mission In Full-Arch Care

• Fixed Podcast

Share episode

What if elite full-arch training and life-changing care could happen in the same week? We sit down with Dr. Simon O. to unpack Orca’s model: a global education-and-service engine that treats extreme edentulism while upskilling clinicians from fundamentals to remote anchorage. From Guatemala to Cairo, the mission is bold and practical—end unnecessary toothlessness by pairing rigorous training with real cases that would otherwise never be done.

We get specific about how a full-scope, cross-trained practice gives patients better options than a one-size-fits-all FP3 mindset. Simon breaks down Orca’s tiers—entry to implants, prosthetic-first digital workflows, conventional on-X, and advanced approaches like pterygoids, transnasals, and quad zygos—plus when FP1 and even selective subperiosteals make sense. Soft tissue takes center stage this year, along with a push to avoid zygos when smart planning, M configurations, and transsinus strategies can leverage slender bone more safely.

Technology is rewriting the playbook. We explore AI-driven design that speeds CBCT-to-provisional workflows, reduces manual lab labor, and sets up safer, more predictable surgeries. The conversation turns to robotics, regulation, and the new shape of “skill” as judgment and patient selection rise while repetitive tasks automate. Then we introduce ArchEd: an asynchronous didactic platform with targeted hands-on and cadaver labs, realistic FDM-printed models from real CTs, structured mentorship, and a vault of point-of-view surgical videos so you can pause, rewind, and walk into complex cases prepared.

If you care about full-arch implant dentistry, this is a roadmap to better outcomes: smarter prosthetics, stronger soft tissue, refined anchorage strategies, and an open culture that raises the standard of care worldwide. Join us as we dig into the Orca Symposium’s speaker lineup, expansion plans across regions, and a shared goal that’s bigger than any single clinic—ending avoidable edentulism by teaching excellence at scale.

If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a colleague, and leave a review. Your support helps more clinicians find the tools and training they need to deliver world-class full-arch care.

SPEAKER_00:

My name is Dr. Tyler Tolbert. And I'm Dr. Soren Poppy. And you're listening to the Fixed Podcast, your source for all things implant dentistry. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Fixed Podcast. I have yet another esteemed guest. I don't know how I keep lining them up, but I've got another really amazing guest here, Dr. Simon O. You have to know him by now. If you don't, you've probably just stumbled at the world of fixed full arch dentistry. I've interviewed Dr. Simon before on the show. We've talked a lot about what he does in his own private practice with his group of practices as well. We can talk about that. But really, what I think has caused a whole lot of buzz in our industry is his efforts with Orca. So that's a really amazing foundation where they're going down to Central America. And the acronym of course is Operation Reidentiolate Central America. And they're doing some of the highest level full Arch education down there, everywhere from pretty much, I wouldn't say zero to one, but pretty much wading into full arch all the way up to advanced remote anchorage. And then after the course concludes, they then bring in a whole bunch of specialist surgeons and do really the most amazing oral surgery that's happening pretty much anywhere. And Simon has had a lot to do with the foundation of that and has had so much to do with the growing and proliferation of it. So it's a real honor to have him on the show. And I just want to welcome you, welcome you back. Yeah, thanks a lot, man. It's always good to be here. Yeah, for sure. For those of my audience that don't know or haven't listened to former episodes, could you give us like a brief synopsis of who you are, where you're practicing, the things you're doing, and lead us into what made Orca, what it is now, how much it's grown.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for sure. So I reside outside of Philadelphia in the suburbs. I have a group practice. Right now we're about seven deep in the Mid-Atlantic region. Cool. Um, and yeah, we focus on full arch, but it's not all full arch. The reason why we set up the way we did it, it's a full scope cross type practice is the way I describe it with a strong backbone in surgery. We do a ton of arches. I think if you ever talk to anybody at the places that only offer one or two services, like you always hear there's a couple cases I probably should have done something else to refer to them out or something like that. So a 25-year-old girl who wants a nice set of teeth and just has some staining, we can offer them something different.

SPEAKER_00:

Probably not the ideal FP3 case.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. But yeah, that's the practice side, it's pretty straightforward and we all are practice thing. But with with Orca, that that's a real passion project. The fun fact is I was the first person in Central American history to place a zygomatic implant. Um no way. Yeah, that's a move. Which is it it's definitely cool, but like sad at the same time because zygas were first on the 80s and they never had access to that kind of treat. I I met with UFM, this university, top university uh dental school in Guatemala, through Dr. Eldad Drury. I sent him down for a basic implant course, met Rodrigo Carriaga, and both of them are now my partners in this project. Um yeah, once we saw the like the emotions come out of these patients who were like 40 years with no solutions, we were like, okay, we got to keep doing this, and we figured we could do it ourselves, which we can only go so fast. But if we were to deploy an educational side, it would not only take care of the financials, but also give us the opportunity to scale up. And so each time you go down there, I think the metric is like an average of 1200 years of addentalism that we end uh the average person's 25 years or something like that.

SPEAKER_00:

I remember when you were first telling me about what kind of got this initiative going, is you said that in this particular area in Guatemala, it's very customary that when someone turned 15 or 16 years old, they go ahead and identify them pretty much as soon as they had cavities, just because it saved them the inconvenience of losing them one by one. So some of these people they've been their entire adult lives have they been addentalists, and that's why you're having these extremely atrophic cases.

SPEAKER_01:

Dude, yeah, it's crazy. I just like that being a gift. Like they don't have the basic the basic care to do that. And so, yeah, at some point, the mission of what we're doing is not only to end this and like I I look at it as a problem of just that. It's like they're getting identified way too early. And so, like, we're trying to fix the current issues of identialism, but ultimately what I'd love to do is, and I'm working on it, is to create a pediatric program just to provide the care. Because like I I think what success looks like for us is to put ourselves out of full arch business, like to for them to be able to actually sustain themselves and have teeth. I it's a pretty difficult thing because of like the amount of poverty ripped over there and like the just complete lack of access to, especially like remote areas. We have people come in from 17-hour bus rides just to come see it. So I don't know how feasible it's gonna be, but it's worth a shot.

SPEAKER_00:

Um you could do to burn that candle at both ends, even with all the people that are coming through there and doing the courses, there's just no way you could just get on top of that problem and get the tail end of it. There's it's impossible.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for sure. It it's a problem here in the US. And uh, I think the amount of desperate nest down there is so much higher. And so yeah, we're we're we're doing that, and then they the surgeons down there were asking me if I had some friends that could take care of because they were starting to show me like, can this get a zygo? And it was a patient with a huge resection and like the sinuses wide open. I'm like, probably not, but let me give my buddy a call. That's how that evolved is uh with Caitlyn Patel, Joe Camarada, Stevie Spav, Zach Brown, Juan Gonzalez, who you know, and a handful of others, like they they're just like good people that have the skills that they need. So yeah, we're doing a lot of microvascular and we're getting into uh cleflip and palate and things of that nature. Yeah, just trying to do the best we can. That's the name of the game.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, that's fantastic. So, how many courses are you guys doing a year? And approximately how many tricklines do you have every time?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right now we're doing twice a year. I'd love to do more, but it's just a matter of and it's not the demand from the like the students, like there's unlimited demand. They're always sold out. So it has more to do with the time that we are able to put aside for that, and then also I think we stress the university. I think because like we basically take over the whole school and they're down there, yeah. But yeah, I'd say each course there's probably like 30 or so students total, and we have usually about 120, or at least the last time we had about 120 people down there from the US and a broader outside the US too.

SPEAKER_00:

And so those that are looking to get involved in this, I believe you guys have different tiers for experience levels and what people are hoping to learn there. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, uh, so we uh we have we just launched the very basic stuff. So, like level one is what we call it, which is like entry to implants. And we have that, we just started it um and it's getting busy. And then after that, what we recommend is doing a prosthetics course. You learn digital full arch and how to restore it. I always whenever I mentor somebody that wants to do surgery, I'm like, okay, how many have you restored? And that way you can actually be really good at this. Cause like, yeah, without understanding the complications that can arise from lack of AP spread and all that kind of stuff, like you it doesn't really click. Like we all read it in a book, but what does it actually look like in real life? And it gets messy. Um so then prosthetics course restoring, or at least being a part of 50 to 60. I think last time we did about 65 arches and taught by the Mod Institute and Shere Ruperellio, who are like the best in terms of uh restoration. Um and then after that we have level two, is what we call it, which is conventional on four on X. So like pretty standard, straightforward, good sinuses, a lot of mandible, that sort of deal. After that is the remote anchorage. So is the most extreme atrophy, like quad zygos, transnasals, pterygoids. There's a couple that we that are are if I saw it in the States, I'd be like, man, if this is this is hard. You know, it's good to do because that means that we're making the biggest impacts for those kind of cases. But yeah, we also have FP1 with knife sonata as well. And we have uh a subperiosteal here and there. I don't believe in them as first line treatment, but like there are certainly cases where it should be. And we do that with Sam Durek.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh yeah, yeah. We just had him on the show, I guess it was about a month ago, is when we recorded. Yeah, I learned a lot about that. He's just he's a walk-in textbook, and it's like an historical record of everything subperiosteal and bringing us all the way from the beginning pretty much to where we're at modern day. Are you guys doing now? He's a big advocate for doing on the lower. Are you guys doing some upper customized as well here and there?

SPEAKER_01:

Or I haven't. I we haven't done any of those down there. I always feel as though like if you they can get a PSI or the ones that go into the zygomas, like you can get a zygo. Imagine where they have a zygote. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

So the angle along which you're able to engage it. I I guess I do see some cases every now and then where you know the zy when you're looking at it at the axial view and you're looking at that zygomatic arch and it's not as thick as it's four millimeters or something like that. You can transverse it at a certain angle, maybe with some zygos. I think Dr. Holtzclaw recently posted on Instagram like an amazing case that he was reviewing. That I I'm no zygote expert, but when I was looking at it, I was like, there's no way that's got to be a PSI case. Through his wizardry, he figured out a way to transverse that and use the hypotenuse of that angle and get a little bit more belly engagement. But uh, but yeah, the stuff you guys have been doing on there has been amazing. I saw a flapless zygo you guys did, some of the left pallet reconstructions, big tumor cases and stuff like that. Really amazing work that you guys are doing on there. It's just so much to learn. And and I believe also you guys, let's say someone just wanted to learn as much as they could, but wasn't necessarily trying to be an operator, they can go down there and they can also shadow, right? Like they can see everything that's going on down there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. We have a lot of those people just because I I think like they're realizing that it it's a high impact thing because not only are they getting the didactic education and the there's a lot of value in just like being around people who know stuff and are willing to share. Um just being around them for a week, like you observe so much, and then on top of that, you observe like in unbelievable cases. Yeah, yeah. Um yeah, it's a pretty popular segment. Yeah, I think it's pretty valuable for people getting into it. That dipping their toes in, not ready to jump in yet.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome, awesome. So that kind of brings us up to the present of where Worka started and where it's at now. Can you tell us about what's coming in the future? Are we looking at expanding the operations in other places? We got some new courses coming up. You already mentioned the FP1 stuff coming.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that that's Guatemala. That honestly, that's like where I love to be. I love their place. I'm working on some stuff probably not ready to share yet, but pretty big stuff that I could share one of the times. But what we're working on right now is an expansion to other places. I think we've made a good splash in that in that town, and uh we're definitely staying for the long term. I do want to ramp up and and get more done. 65 or so is great. I'd love to see it where we're doing like 200 a week when we're down there. Yeah, it's just a lot of manpower, and like whenever I love scaling stuff, I love it brings a lot of challenges that are fun to work through. And yeah, so it's just a matter of systemizing and getting the operations in place. But that's Central America. We're also working, we just had our first one in Egypt in Cairo. Um, yeah, so we have our European friends. Guatemala's rather convenient to get to from America, but there's a lot of European interest to to not only teach, but also or not teach, but uh yeah, teach, but also learn, but at the same time do a good thing. We we just had our first one with our Italian friends, Emmanuel Coppola and uh Gregario Rodai. They just taught the first one in Cairo, and they're doing another one next year as well. We're also looking at South America, Asia, and I believe India was another one on the list. And believe it or not, it's funny because the in in the Middle East you have some pretty rich areas like Dubai and the UAE, but they don't have very good full arch, I guess you can call it skill set. So we're looking to go out there too. I think we have some good contacts, not me personally, but some of our colleagues uh and partners. Just trying to end the toothlessness suffering. Yeah, that life's gonna suck.

SPEAKER_00:

Like really, no, it really does. No, it really does. And selfishly, I hear about all these different places you guys are gonna do it. And it's like it'd be cool to have a charitable excuse to go to Dubai. That's I'm just going there to help, you know. That's all.

SPEAKER_02:

We focus.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, that that's fantastic. Would you say that you guys just had this one in Cairo? Is there any particular reason that someone in America might want to go to the Cairo one instead of Guatemala? Maybe there's like a different type of education there, it's different educators, it's a totally different environment. Maybe there's something they could gain from that. Maybe they've already gone to Guatemala and they're looking for maybe a slightly different experience. Is it any different or are you mostly just recreating it in different places for the purpose of access?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's for the purpose of access. Um and the convenience for local markets. Okay. I think the only times we've had any kind of requests for Egypt from the US are if a particular doctor has like family ties or like they're from Egypt or something, they're motivated to help their own country. Um, it's getting to Guatemala from here is so convenient. Oh, yeah, it's Egypt is brutal. It's brutal. Yeah, brutal quite. But yeah, it's intended for the European docs because yeah, it's it's tough to get to Guatemala from Europe.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure, sure. And then I know we got I'm particularly excited myself. I just signed up for the Orca Symposium, so that's coming out mid-January. I've been telling everybody about it. I want it to be just a big party. I want everyone, I want all the full arch people out there. I've been sharing the codes widely. But yeah, can we talk a little bit about that? The things that excite you the most about it, what's changed since the first annual symposium?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, definitely excited. So this year is at the Four Seasons Hotel. We basically have the entire hotel, so it's just gonna be like full arch docks in the entirety of the building. We have we have a great lineup, very excited about. So we're doing it a little bit differently this year. I think differently, but the same. Last year we did a lot of extreme reconstruction, which I guess we're doing again, but with a different perspective. Okay. And a lot of it was zygo focused. This year we're trying to have a little bit of a different lens on it. So same, it's similar in that we have a good combination of history, good techniques, and future. So last year we had Dr. Oli Jensen, who's the pioneer volant for in the US, like the pioneer. This year we have Carlos Aparicio who is pioneering the modern day zygo. Um and then Mike Picos doing subs, Sam Jurick doing subs. But we're also getting into like soft tissue. I think that's like the overlooked stepchild of Falarch. Is you pretty much live in nigh by it, but we just don't get we don't get psyched about it. Yeah, or yeah, they're cooler, you get to like really jam things in, and yeah, that's fun. Yeah, soft tissue. Not as cool, but I think especially with all the cases being done, I think people are starting to realize the importance of it. Um, yeah, you bet. Yeah, so we've got that. I also wanted to provide some really good insights on how to avoid the zygomatics. So that's like kind of a big theme this year is sinus M configuration transpalatal approach from Rodriguez. I think that's gonna be valuable in for the people looking for knowledge. We also have a segment on AI in the future, how that actually looks like the next couple of years. It's not five, ten years, it's like now.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's like six months, maybe.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, exactly. So, like we we've got we've got Steve Flow of Voyager who has like an awesome AI generated design function.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so like you just input the data, click a button, and then about three minutes later you have a design full extra amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. I think uh I think the last time we had you on, I asked you about what you were most excited about. And I think it was AI. And the what we were talking about at the time was you upload a C B C T and the AI is gonna segment it and it's gonna figure out what's gonna be the best configuration for implants, right? Like how are we gonna distribute this? Let's just find the maximum areas of bone and get really good anchors there. I and I think now we're realizing that's just like that's small potatoes. Like this is the start, like we're getting to the point now where someone's gonna come in the door, they're gonna get C B C T some photos and stuff. You pump that in. Not only did you did it tell you where you're gonna put your implants, but it gave you the design. It prepped you for your surgery, you're gonna do your surgery, it's gonna spit out your surgical temp in no time at all. Yeah. And it's gonna be it's gonna incorporate some stuff from spin bone, it's gonna have FEA analysis and all that. It's all gonna happen in the blink of an eye. And this stuff is just it's getting away from us so quickly. It's fascinating to talk about. And I think the for the people that stand to gain the most are the ones that are just listening and just seeing that curve as it's coming around. And yeah, that that's awesome. I love you guys are talking about that because that is really it's transforming every industry. But the things I think a lot of us hold dear and the things that our industry is segmented with, right? Like design and and implant planning, all these things, like these things are going to be very immaterial. We're not gonna rely on other companies to do it for us. It's going to be there. It's an amazing time. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. So I've been doing, I've been learning the process side of it on the digital flow lately. And I'm blown away with how much of it is just mindless labor. Like a lot of it. It's uploading files, it's clicking the supports on the teeth, which is like the most come on. Yeah, yeah. And then and then the design itself is like rotating the image and then filling in this spot and creating the and sculpting the gingable margin. Yeah, like all that is it's labor. And it's yeah, honestly, something that could and really ought to be at something that probably in the next couple years to be fully automated. I'm excited for that. After that, I'm excited cautiously about robotics stepping in because I'm excited because my body hurts for one. I get that, yeah. But at the same time, like how much of that is going to ruin our industry and really um really put docs out of work. So yeah, it's a scary yet thrilling sort of thing to think about. I think the thing that's in the way, which is probably gonna be our friend, is FDA, you know, because as much as I I'd like to think that they are they are all for what's best and with good outcomes and all that kind of stuff, there's money involved. And so the associations of all these different uh groups are gonna lobby and make sure and try to keep autonomous robotics out. We'll see what happens, but just trying to live for the day.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's what we see is this kind of diminishing importance of actual skill, like any personal skill that you've actually developed, things that we painstakingly developed. I when you mentioned design, I I was putting together all my CE for my Du Bois fellowship, and I came across my uh I gone to MOD, right, and Wally Renee, and like they've got an amazing operation down there. And I gone there, I think it was November of 2023, and I went there for their digital removables course because I was trying to learn about printed dentures and how I could incorporate that and things like that. And we walked through the whole Exocad design process of immediate dentures, partials, did a little bit of hybrid stuff, but it wasn't really for that. They have a separate module for that. And just what you're saying, I'm going through it, and this is no shade to his course at all. It's a he does fantastic education. But I'm going through it and I'm like, I'm clicking stuff and I'm contouring geniva and stuff. And in retrospect, I'm like, man, I know that people can be so talented with that and so quick and so artistic, but in such a short amount of time, that will be completely obsolete. Yeah. And that scales to even things that we do surgically, that we may feel like magicians, like we get it out. The operator, and we're like, wow, just did that. That took this has been 10 years in the making. I've been going through dental school and courses and residencies and reading textbooks and stuff. And it's, you know what, man? Honestly, it's only a matter of time before that stuff really doesn't matter. And there's a whole new generation of people that are going to come about. They're going to see human things as inferior. Like that's going to happen at some point. Hopefully we can all have fruitful careers before that happens. Because at the end of the day, what do we really have at stake? What are we really going to be responsible for? And it may just come down to making a decision of whether or not it's right for a person and then everything else is automated. Scary time, exciting in a way. Maybe it's good. But yeah, I know I'm getting a little off the rails, but it's easy to do that when you really lean into how far things have come with AI.

SPEAKER_01:

No, for sure. Look, it's going to be the kind of thing where like our kids um are going to look back and be like, they did that by hand? Are you serious? It's like when we see Dennis not using gloves.

SPEAKER_00:

That's the same thing. They're like, oh, they use their hands. That's insane. But for now, we got a job. Yeah. The time bang. Yeah. The time bang. Yeah. Awesome. Any other ones that you're excited about for the symposium already covered some really good ones?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, dude. And there's like each one that we picked was like, we're excited about that. I honestly there's I think uh 15, 20 speakers or something like that. Yeah, I'm I'm looking at the itinerary now. Yeah, one other that comes to mind is Fayette William. William John a day. Yeah, John A Day. I think that's gonna be really exciting for the oral surgeons that are doing micro just to get a sense of like how to balance. It's like you're I guess you're placing the implants with the guide on the fibula, which makes sense, but then the process on the fibula, it's like, how do you do that? Or what are you talking about? So like yeah, and I think I think it's gonna spark a lot of curiosity for the most. And what I'm really interested to see is Knife Sonata's our moderator, uh, because like he he's involved in some of those cases with the fibulas, and he's even doing them after the fact. And so I'm really um I don't even know what questions to ask myself. Like, I don't do those things. Yeah, like I'm really interested to see that to see if there's any sort of concepts we can take from that and relate it to what we do every day with Full Arch. Just really excited for the conversations, and then after hours, like just congregating and being with one another. I think one of the things that attracts people to to our group is is the culture. Yeah, we're open. Um, yeah, there there are some personalities and egos, but I think the overall is that like the knowledge that we have is to be shared and we do it openly for the betterment of their career and then their patients. That's my whole thing, is that's why I like being in a leadership position in like DSOs. I know that's a bad word in dentistry, but but yeah, it's if I can do more good by helping other people, that's scale. And that to me is something that that I look and put my head down at night and like that makes me feel good, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's no way that you could do even an a fraction of the impact that you've done through educating so many people on what all the cases they're gonna do for the rest of their careers. And so many people they go to orca, they talk about how that was such a pivotal moment for them. I have a guy that his name is George Shotakis. I think I'm probably pushing his line. Yeah, yeah. He he sends me his cases and he's like, Yeah, man, Orca will change my life. I mean, he appreciates the show as well. He I'm a footnote, but he mentions that that kind of inspired him to go out to those courses and stuff like that. And he sent him his cases and they're meant really good. Shout out, George. He's gonna be doing full arch for the rest of his career, and he owes that to the people that that taught him to do that. And that's just really cool. That that's something you don't have to take credit for it, but you can certainly take some pride in the impact that you make. So definitely applaud you for making such a huge impact in the full arch world. And so ultimately what's so important is I think it's very easy, especially if you're if you're in the business of full arch, to get scarce about it, right? Like you would get worried about competitors and other people learning how to do what you do. And it's like, look, at the end of the day, people are gonna learn this if they want to do it. There's plenty of resources, they're gonna go out and find it. What's important is that people do it well. Yeah. Because in in my community, when I see cases coming through my office and they were not done well, and now I have to talk to this patient and explain, hey, I know you took out a second mortgage for this, but you're gonna have to take out another one because this is not this is really bad. And you try to do that without walking over someone else, but it's it's important that the work be done well. There's always going to be people to treat, and we need to be making sure they're treated well. And sometimes you just have to say, you know what, rising tides lift all boats. Let's educate, let's make sure people are doing things well. And I think that kind of thing comes back around.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and that I think is good credit to the faculty, the orca. Yeah, for sure, man.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. So yeah, so we cover Orca, we cover the symposium. Any other things that you're working on in the future that you can detail, or are you gonna keep teasing us?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so there's I've got three projects cooking. One we just released today, actually. Okay, tell me about it. Yeah, so it's called ArchEd. And uh so thinking about the the educational process of a doctor getting a full arch, a live surgery, which is orca has like or should be the tail end. We take applications and we make sure it's appropriate. We don't want to not only waste their time and money, but also it's really important for safety for the patients. Like we really care about that. What I had been doing is that's called the All-NX Masterclass, which is a USA-based didactic, cadiver. Yep. I was talking with my buddies, Nestor and Raj and Juan, and we were doing the same thing, maybe a little different. And we're just like, dude, we're all doing the same thing. What are you guys teaching? And all of us were like, we're teaching everything. We're like, we're doing that in a weekend? Why don't we combine and then create a curriculum? And so what the idea behind ArchEd is to create that standard of full arch education, just like Orca is on the live surgery front. But ArchEd is different because it's USA-based, it's hands-on cadaver, but in in a continuum. Yeah, I just got I didn't like the fact that a didactic was in person because there's docs are not always absorbing everything. There might be something distracting, or they might have a question, or they missed something because they were listening doing something else. And so, okay, how do we solve that? Put it online. So what we're doing is asynchronous online didactic education that's not out yet, it's almost there. But the in-person side is going to be specific to a certain set of topics. One of my I guess disagreements with what I've been doing internally was like, okay, this person wants to learn Zygras, this person wants to learn M. This one is fresh out and just wants to learn basic. Like we have to switch gears. None of the like it's very dilute the amount of information we can get into because each one is very nuanced, and I think they deserve that. What we're doing is in this year, what we're doing is basic or introduction, everything but the zygomatic, which I think to me is the most exciting, and then the remote anchorage stuff, and then we have a course called Arch Nemesis, which is like a plan where you know, like the nemesis of the arch is prosthetic complications with yeah, two that's yeah, two brilliant guys, Anthony Pilato. Both of them are prostheticists, both of them have labs. Like they and the calls that I get on with those guys to to discuss the course and what are you talking about, they're on a different level of prosthetic.

SPEAKER_00:

That is like my full arch chat GPT. I send him texts all the time. Hey man, I just saw a post about this. What do you think? And he'll send me like three paragraphs, and I don't get any of it. And I'm like, hey man, just thank you for putting that together. Really appreciate you putting your thought into it. I don't understand.

SPEAKER_01:

I learned something new every time with those guys, but yeah, that's really cool. Yeah, yeah. This year we've got February 6th through 8 in Austin, Texas, the full Arch is full auto, which is at the gun range and shooting full automatic guns. That is zygoptergoid transnasal only. So we're gonna be going through like quad strategies, the nuances of zygo one, two, and three, which actually have different types of complications. If you ever had a zygomatic tip into the sinus before, yeah, when you try to screw it in, but there is a science behind that that I've broken down, and that's what we go through. And that's something that I don't get to do if everything's diluted with a whole mix of an audience, is I can't go into those small nuances, which is really it makes a huge difference in practice. That's six through eight. We're gonna hit the cadaver lab too, and uh and then the full arch internship or ways of the arches with Nestor is the introduction/slash deep dive into the basics, just March 24 to 27 in uh Yuma, Arizona, and then you go over the border into Mexico and do all this crazy stuff with flamethrowers and shoot more guns and blows. Yeah, exactly. And the new segment that I'm really excited about is called Vice City Arches. So it's Max Villas in Miami. Um, it's gonna be at the Fountain Blue Hotel, um, Cadaver Lab also April 10 through 12. And it's everything but the zygomatics, so palatal approach, trans minus M configuration, double V point. We'll go through pterygoids as well there. But yeah, the goal there is to like expand someone's scope without going big. And I think the longer I practice, the more I realize that case doesn't need a zyger, that one doesn't need a zyger, that one doesn't need and so like I've got and I'm writing a paper right now with Oli Jensen about the M configuration, the utility of it, because the math breaks down that you can have five to six millimeters of subnasal bone and pull off an M configuration with 13 to 16 millimeter implants. Yeah, it's nuts, and so I think the knee-jerk reaction for a lot of people when you see a pan or a CT with that much bone is quads, and like which I get it, it's but like this is a lot more sophistication in terms of utilizing every last bit of it without compromise. Um that's one that I'm really excited about, but yeah, that's uh that that's the in-person stuff. I'm excited because I have I just bought a bunch of 3D printers in my house, FDM ones, not the resin. But we we have actual CT models. I don't know if like you you've been to a course and like the models, like a generic one, and oh yeah, they squeak and they fracture the noise itself just drives me nuts. But I wanted to also disrupt that segment because so like the online stuff I think is very disruptive in itself, but the models, the actual education you get from that is is very valuable.

SPEAKER_00:

So it's an actual bone facsimile, like it's actually similar to bone itself, is that what we're saying? Because you're using the FDM resin for it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the particular configuration that we have I've tested and it feels and torques like bone, it's not, it doesn't crack, and it's an actual patient of mine. So I have palatal approach, I have trans sinus, I have intra sinus zygos, I have quad zygos, I have every scenario that you can think of, and we're gonna do be deploying those at each of these because like the models we get from vendors, like they're just they're so generic, you can't really learn anything off those things. Yeah, um, yeah, that's another aspect to it. Another thing that I'm really excited about is we're gonna be offering mentorship as well. And then lastly, the what I can talk about now is the vault. What I've been doing a lot of recording point of view. So I have a head camera that has a point of view video, and so I have a library on YouTube that I keep semi-private. I can send you some of my my uh my videos. Yeah, uh, I only share like five percent of it, probably.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. It actually I gotta give credit to you. So one of them was I think it was like a 30-minute arch that you did, and it was just an indentualist maxilla, and I learned about how you flap an arch, right? So the way you use a mold nine and how you it's hard for me to actually say what it is, but when you see you're like, holy shit, you can just use two hands and you can really muscle it like that. Yeah, but delicately, of course. Yeah, that taught me a lot. Like, I my arches are faster because of that video. So I wouldn't have to see your vault. This is like uh Prince's vault of unreleased music that there's just way more unreleased music than he ever actually released. This is great.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely, man. I think we have all of our own surgical habits and the way we do things in dentistry, but just seeing something a different way and the sequence that he does it can save you so much time and headache. So I have a pretty extensive library, and the other guys, and Esther, Juan, and Raj are doing the same thing. So we're gonna be having all of these videos in this vault for people to look at different scenarios, quads, revision of quads, complications, basic all and four trans sinus, all that stuff will be in the vault, which cool hasn't been done yet. Yeah, they're brand new to the industry. But but yeah, that's what I can do disclose right now. We have um we have a wait list for the online right now because it's not released yet. We're still finishing and making sure it's good. So once it gets released, like if you sign up for the wait list, you'll get like first notification, probably a big discount too, if you know you're on the wait list versus buying it later. Of course. Um, but yeah, we have besides that, we have some really, really cool stuff coming. I don't like getting into an industry just to compete, like disrupting. Um and that's the intention here is to really disrupt and because there's so much uh education that is just like so I just want this, I want there to be a standard, I want there to be like one place, like a gold standard, and that's what we're striving for, is for people to really nail these things and do a great job, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So I guess in summary, so you just talked about a lot of things. Is the Arch Ed concept everything you just talked about, how it weaves together all these courses, the vault, all of that, or are they totally separate ventures?

SPEAKER_01:

No, so everything that I just talked about is an Arch Ed. It's uh under that umbrella. Um we are also gonna be doing, I think for a particular amount of people for the online segment, having a we're like we'll mail you models and the implants, and then you can uh walk alongside us doing it so you can get a board for it.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, I love that. Yeah, this is something I'm so glad you're doing this because we live in an age where it's so easy to get a custom bio model for a patient to be using these like generic models, like it's just so unnecessary. I have on my desk, this is my quad zygo patient that I did like last month. Yeah, and now whenever we're training doctors, or or not training, but like whenever we're orienting doctors in one of our offices, whenever they have their first case, like we just go ahead and say, Hey, look, we're gonna segment this out for you. Go, this is your model for your patient, practice this, have it already memorized in your head, be able to visualize that, and then we'll do it in person. It's just such a better way to do things. And like we have the technology, like it's such an easy thing to do now. We have AI, like there's no excuse not to not to be able to simulate this. So I love that you're doing that. I love that you're doing it with those FDM bone resins. I've heard great things about them. Don't, I don't have one myself, but man, that's fantastic. I love that you're doing that. And that's a great way to do mentorship. Yeah, for that case in particular, I had Chris Barrett come out. He helped me with a case and he planned it for me so I can kind of get a visualization of it. I printed it out, I did it at the office, and then he came over. And the night before we're kind of reviewing it and how I approached it. And then when we did it, it was like, I've already done it before. This is I've already seen this. It's just it used to be gray, now it's white. Yeah. And uh that's the way to do it. Like you you've already been there before. And I I really believe in visualization and like being able to walk through the surgery and everything you're gonna do mentally before you actually do it. And things go so much smoother that way. And you're just not able to do that if you have a generic model. I know we're talking a lot about models, but this is like a really good point that you've made here, and I'm glad that you're doing that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. If you think that's cool once we release the next thing, if it's cool with you, I'll hop back on and talk about that because this is the next level.

SPEAKER_00:

It's yeah, man. This show, I just want to prov help provide value to people. I'm not here to sell anything. I just I really want people to learn more about what we do and just get really freaking good at it. And it sounds like what you're putting together is exactly what the full arch world needs in terms of education. It's something that's weaving together so many different courses is doing it in a coherent and comprehensive way to really create excellence for people and make sure the patients are getting treated right. And I know we've both seen the winter that we've all said is coming. Like it's been here for years. We've been seeing it in our clinics and uh and the way we fix that is with knowledge and education and just being better at it. Gone are the days of just the weekend course where we just try to crash people into doing cases and they go try and do it on Monday, and it turns into an absolute shit show. And people are at the tail end of that. And we have to think about the end user, and it all starts with just making sure that we're teaching people the right things and saving people the lessons that we've had to learn the hard way. I think it's an amazing time to be getting into full arch. Yes, it's getting extremely popular and it's getting more saturated, but there's more resources now than ever. I think back to when I was like a D2 in dental school and I just learned about and knew about dental implants, but I learned about the power of them and that I it was something I really wanted to focus on. And there were online courses. There were like really expensive CEs that you go to in person for three days, and you'd be really excited the first day, and then the next day your eyes start glossing over. Then by the third day, you're just trying to go home. And then you're trying to go and you're trying to do it in practice. And at the end of the day, like there's just so many pitfalls that you ran into that could have been prevented had your education been a little bit more comprehensive, intentional, had there been mentorship attached to that, and had there been some of the things that you're talking about right now. So please, as you come out with this, I'm more than happy to help spread the word. People are always coming to me about where they should go for education. I always have many people, most of the people have been on our show have their own course, and I'll say, hey, you should go to that course and learn from them. But it sounds like what you've done is gonna weave together a lot of the best people doing this. And it's just gonna make it a simple way to say, hey, look, go do our chat. Just go through that. And once I know that you've gone through that and you've done the online stuff, you've done the in-person, you've done some live surgeries, like I I have a pretty good idea of how competent you are. So please, yeah, let's do that. You're more than welcome to come back on the show and I'm happy to help spread the word.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, sounds good, man. You know, when it comes down to it, I think I'm blessed to have a really cool network of really talented people and just bringing everybody together to to share that the information that they are really good at. That's the name of the game. Um and yeah, I I think anybody that signs up will be uh blown away with the amount of the amount of confidence they come out with. A lot of lot of really good courses out there. And at the same time, like this is asynchronous, you can do it on your couch, you can rewind, which is a big deal, and then at the same time, you can ask questions too and join a really great community. I think this is going to be a huge hit, not only in the US, but also internationally, because anybody on the internet can get it. And yeah, just hoping that there's less or there's better work that comes out when other patients come to our offices. We look at an x-ray of random patients that has an arch and we're like, damn, they did a nice job. Yeah, yeah, that's that's a good feeling. I don't really see I I that's what I want to see is in the future is like really awesome cases from other people.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a good feeling just seeing excellent work. And I I think about so many of the courses that I've gone to, and it's borderline disrespectful, but whenever I'm in a course and I'm like really engaged in it, like I'm on my phone the entire time because I'm I just have a notes page, like I have an outline, and I'm literally just trying to get every piece of information down because so often like you don't get the slides at the end, you don't really capture the certain things that were said, and it's like you're left with maybe retaining from dental school, you might remember five percent of the shit you're taught, frankly. Same thing happens in CE, and then trying to remember this stuff, and I would go back to courses multiple times because I just couldn't remember certain things. And so I I think that democratizing that, having it online, having it something you can literally just pop in your office and review before you go into your case, it's a beautiful thing. It should be that way. And I think that you're thinking abundantly about this. And the more we do that, and the more we share, and the more we try to make each other better, the better off we're gonna be. I think the worst thing you can do is just get in this mindset that, oh, I know full arch and only I know full arch, and I'm not trying to share this. And, you know, that really stifles you because there's so many things that you can learn from other people. And by sharing that with others, they hold you accountable to making yourself better, incorporating new things, and and just doing better work. And that's just that's I think that's the long game. That's the only way you can. This is for a long time, it's just by getting better and doing better care. Because when you're just doing everything real quick and fast and you're not learning from others, those cases come back a lot sooner. And uh, this doesn't this really isn't as fun when that starts happening. I love what you're doing, Simon, and I look forward to everything that you've been able to disclose and all the things that you can't disclose. And I hope that when you're ready to disclose that we can be an outlet for that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, clearly. We'll hop back on here. Yeah, really excited about the next 12 months. Cool. Arched, orca, the those two things, I think, and smart maps technologies with with Sven. I'm not a technical contributor, those guys are way too smart. Like I don't add much value other than business advice. Right. But yeah, those those guys, what we're what we're getting ready to release is uh like coming out of left field and just making people think to themselves, like, I didn't know you could do that, or like, man, like that that's such a good idea. Like those kind of those kind of things, the engineers over there are top notch and as in a league of his own.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean that that's what full arch has been for me. Like I've been in the game for a little while now, and the way that full arch is being done today is almost completely foreign to the way it was when I first got out. Oh, totally. Yeah, it's every few months I see someone doing something that I'm like, I didn't even know that was legal. I didn't know that I didn't know that that was within the boundaries of what we could do. And then you start doing it and you realize, oh man, I should have been doing this the whole time. Right. Inundation is what's driving us forward. And it's just a fast, it's such a fast developing segment of dentistry that's incorporating new technology, it's incorporating AI, it's incorporating new surgical techniques all the time. And if you don't have your ear to the ground, you're gonna be behind so fast. And uh, and that's why it's so important to keep educating yourself and staying on top of it and going deep with it. I do believe that if you're gonna do full arch, do full arch and do it for real. Don't just dabble in it, don't dip your toes because you'll get burned. So, yeah, man, I'm super excited for the next 12 months as well. Super excited to see you in person at Orca and everyone else that's gonna be in attendance. I'm sure it's gonna be a ton of people and hopefully there'll be some fixed fans as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely, man. No, really excited for the next 12 months, man. And yeah, great to be on here as always, man. It's always a good time.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, Doc. All right. So next time, thank you so much. Thanks, bro. See ya. See ya.